glue for ferrule?

[cantpotforshíte]

I'm putting a new ferrule on my cue tomorrow at work. I'm sure the existing ferrule is not threaded, but just a tight fit, so I'll be making the new one the same.

My question is this: Does anybody know if cue makers rely on the press-fit of a ferrule to keep it from coming loose, or do they use glue?
And if they do use glue, which do they use?

Advice from anybody would be welcome, cue makers or not.

Thanks,

Del

[Terry Davidson]

I would recommend you go with a threaded ferrule however if you do use the sleeve then I would say some kind of really good metal/wood epoxy good for a high vibration environment

Terry

[jaffa.johnson]

I have just used super glue and did the trick for me.

[cantpotforshíte]

Thanks for the replies, chaps.
I'll see how much wood is left after I've turned the existing ferrule off. If there's enough so that a thread wouldn't weaken the remaining wood, I might well make a threaded ferrule.
Other than that, I'll use epoxy glue like 'Araldite' I think ... I'd be worried about superglue going off before the thing was properly on!

[Terry Davidson]

And the super glue will crystalize from the constant vibration.

Be sure to heat the old ferrule (carefully) for about 10 seconds with a lighter or match in case there's glue in there already and also it makes taking it off much easier.

You should have enough wood in the tannen(sp?) so you can install a threaded ferrule although there may be too much there and you might have to take it down carefully with a fine file, rotating the cue after each filing to keep everything even and centered.

Terry

[Slasher]

This should be available in the UK and is an excellent product, not all epoxies are created equal and I have found these industrial grades to be the most reliable.

http://www.devcon.com/products/produ...%C2%AE%20Epoxy

[Acrowot]

Hello slasher, you are right about Devcon. It leaves Araldite standing for quality! I have used Araldite years ago and it has never been consistent. Then I found Devcon many years ago and use it on parts of my model planes, especially on the part where the engine is fixed and I will say that it stands a lot of vibration. I use both five minute and the longer setting type. If anybody on here wants to know where to buy it, mine comes from Inwoods Models at Huntingdon. Just type in Inwoods Models and it will come up with them. Ask for Devcon by name.

[cantpotforshíte]

Thanks for the replies again fellas.

It turned out to be a screw ferrule that was on after all Terry, so I just made a new screw-type one to suit. I see now that that's where the glue goes, in the air gaps between the threads, I couldn't imagine that there was space for the glue with a very close push-fitting ferrule - I didn't realise that most ferrules were screwed on.

I might order some Devcon for future jobs, but had to make do with Araldite Rapid, as I wanted to use the cue tonight and that was all I had in ... I'll see how it gets on.

The reason the ferrule needed replacing was because it had become squashed out of shape after I had been using a Talisman 'soft' laminated tip - which are actually quite hard. Has anybody else had this problem or am I just up to my old tricks and hitting the ball much too hard?

[Acrowot]

I also find the Talisman soft quite hard, so since Trev sent my cues last September, they still have the original Elks that he fitted.

[Acrowot]

cantpotfor****e

If you want the epoxy just for ferrules, it does not come in such small packs as Araldite, as far as I am aware and is quite expensive just for using a very small amount for a ferrule. But it does seem to have a very long shelf life.
Hope this helps

[Terry Davidson]

cantpot:

It sounds like the wall of your ferrule was too thin and I have used Talisman Softs for quite awhile and never had this problem. If you have your ferrule size down to 9mm or so then it might be a little thin and you'll have the same problem again after a little time.

You mentioned you made up a threaded ferrule. Are you a machinist? If so, any way you can make me up 5 stainless steel threaded ferrules at 9.4mm and about 10mm in height? I'm trying to get some stainless steel ferrules to experiment with. I have a sleeved one here but I don't want to use a sleeve if I can help it.

I don't mind paying you for your time and trouble

Terry

[Acrowot]

Look at his website Terry, that is his business.
http://www.rlunnengineering.co.uk/

[cantpotforshíte]

I am a toolmaker Terry.

It's no problem for me to knock up 5 for you as long as I know what you need ... I actually machined the old ferrule off my cue rather than unscrewed it so I'm not sure exactly what the internal thread in the ferrule is. The thread left on the wooden tenon seemed to be a standard M8 metric thread (albeit a very loose one - The diameter of the tenon was about 7.3mm - I suppose you need somewhere for the glue to go) so I just made my new ferrule to that size and it went on the tenon on my cue pretty snugly.

But to make sure, you could do with finding out what the thread is in an existing brass ferrule (I don't have any). The easiest way to do this would be to try a bolt in it one you have bolts that you know are a particular size, or take one to a local friendly hardware store and ask them to see what size it is.

At first glance, I can't find any data on the internet referring to the thread size but it might be out there somewhere ...

Cheers,

Del

[Terry Davidson]

I have some brass ferrules here and the inside is just a standard wood-type thread (fairly wide) so I think you have the M8 correct and the inside diameter is not critical but your 7.3mm looks to be bang on also as that would mean the thickness of the ferrule would be around 2mm for a 9.5mm outside diameter size.

I would think if you made me a few with those dimensions they would do the job perfectly and my outside diameter is 9.4mm which with stainless steel would leave around 2mm of wall thickness which should be strong enough. The threads are not the same in the brass ferrules I have here but they are all just designed to grip wood like a wood screw rather than take a nut like a metal-type of bolt.

I also have reduced the height of the ferrule as I am experimenting with a shorter ferrule which would take more weight out of the end of the cue for those slightly off-centre hits us amateurs do unintentionally from time to time. I have a feeling keeping the weight of the ferrule down as much as possible whilst still retaining some strength as with the stainless steel might help minimize that throw somewhat.

If you make these up you may want to make one for yourself (I understand the weight of brass and stainless steel is similar) since you had a brass ferrule that collapsed on you. If you do decide to replace the ferrule you just installed, heat it a bit with a lighter or match to loosen up the glue and then turn it off (unscrew it) with a pair of pliers as that's what I do here to change ferrules.

Terry

[cantpotforshíte]

I'll certainly be changing my ferrules in future using the heat-and-unscrewing method Terry, I just didn't realise that mine was a threaded ferrule.

The core diameter of an M8 nut is 6.8mm, so this would grip the wooden tenon on your cue if that measured 7.3mm ... other similar sizes of screw threads do have slightly smaller core diameters though (6.6mm for 5/16" UNC and 6.5mm for 5/16" Whitworth) but I can knock some up with an M8 thread and you can see if they work.
You might be a bit out on the wall thickness though - Because of the nature of a helical thread, the largest part of the internal diameter is 8mm, which would only leave 0.7mm wall thickness at minimum on a 9.4mm tip (and 1.3mm maximum wall thickness (9.4-6.8)/2=1.3.
That said, the pictures of brass ferrules that I've seen on the internet do seem to have standard screw threads like an M8 bolt thread.

But just let me know if you want a few making to this spec. and I'll sort it out.

Del