Is Robert Osborne Right?

[arbitrage]

Anyway only making 5 cues a year at 5k a go, isn't going to pay the bills is it

No, I mean apart from his wholesale trade business. (English people don't have a clue about business models, do they? )

As long as Robert markets it properly, I don't see why not? 5k is chump change here - there is a big market for collector pool cues and they are trading for astronomical prices e.g. US$25k etc.

[DWOT]

No, I mean apart from his wholesale trade business. (English people don't have a clue about business models, do they? )

As long as Robert markets it properly, I don't see why not? 5k is chump change here - there is a big market for collector pool cues and they are trading for astronomical prices e.g. US$25k etc.

I predict a few "Special cues" being made if they read that post........

[Inoffthered]

(English people don't have a clue about business models, do they? )

Strong generalisation

[jim evans]

Anyway only making 5 cues a year at 5k a go, isn't going to pay the bills is it

it would mine

[poolqjunkie]

Actually a lot of US pool cues are selling for a lot more money than snooker cues. Ernie of Gina cue is a perfect example. Last time I was there (may be 5 years ago) he gave me a good discount on a cue--for USD$5500. It was supposed to be $7500--and his waiting list was 2 years+.
Arthur cues from Germany can go over USD$100,000. They are usually around the $10,000 mark.
Thomas Wayne, another cue maker mostly interested in making exhibition grade cues, once said, "you have to be crazy to buy my cue to play with..." (or something like that).
The fact is, in US pool, most higher end cues are judged like a piece of art. A lot of these cues do not even play that well (with all due repect to the cue makers)--but most collectors will not use them to play with anyway. Because they are sold as collectible art peices, they can ask for a lot of money, and there are people willing to pay for them.
Robert's cues are in general not very complicated in terms of design. I am sure you have seen more intricate and complex cues from Trevor and Mike than from Robert. Most of Robert's cues are solid cues but not known to be very fancy like 24 splices or things like that.
If Robert makes a few very fancy cues it will for sure go for a lot of money just because it is so rare. I am not sure if he can sell it for 5K GBP but may be 2-3K to collectors with no problem...
I remember a few years back when the Japanese was doing so well some US pool cue makers pretty much just built cues for the wealthy Japanese collectors. US customers would have to wait forever for their cues. These cue makers were too busy catering to the Japanese. Well, their bubble burst so it is no longer the case but when it was so, lots of US customers were not very happy about it. Now these cue makers are back to serving US customers again.:-)

[trevs1]

Every professional cue maker makes cues for money, it's their business.

Not taking individual orders for your top of the range cues from individual customers doesn't suddenly tip you over the edge from a craftsman who turns out cue after cue to the highest possible standard to some corporate machine only interested in the money and turning out lesser cues as a result which seems to be your point.

I have to say I agree with this....

[trevs1]

I can totally understand why he has decided to do this, but I'm pretty sure it will be a temporary situation only.

Making to individual order can be a nightmare. While many people are great in terms of allowing a maker time and scope to produce a custom cue, there are many who just do not leave you alone with the original specs (or even design) that was chosen from the start.
Having to respond to emails about a change of ferrule size from 9.2mm to 9.3mm, or whether to have a flat cut onto the butt which is 2.5" long or 2.75" long is very very tiring, and after a while it can leave you in a state of total confusion. Without going into details of any specific cases, it can get you to a point where you begin to question whether it's worth the time and effort. The issue for someone like Robert is that he is not new to this business, and so, he is NOT making these things for love or to receive slaps on the back telling him how great he is, but, he is doing it for money, because THIS is how he makes a living. Having "more" passion for your work does not make you more profitable in itself, so things have to be done in the correct order when an activity is the primary way you make money. Yes, profit HAS TO come first, but it doesn't mean that it's all a maker cares about.

Good luck to Robert in whatever he decides to do.

[Deepscrew]

Without wishing to echo the same sentiments as others in this thread, when it comes to making a business work you have to go where the money is. Otherwise its not a business but a costly hobby.

Can i order a cue Trevor, 9.22334456mm tip exactly (might change my mind, will let you know in a year or so), ok ;P Can i get discount aswell, because i live close to wales!

[deant1982]

Well said Trevor.

Everybody works to make money. If you love your job it is a bonus, but at the end of the day you go to put food on the table. Cuemakers couldn't get away with turning out lower quality goods as like anything, inferior products damage their brand name, which affects their livelyhood. I have never owned a TW, RO, or MW cue, but based on every picure I have seen of any of them, the craftsmanship is incredible on a consistant basis. No cue from any of them looks like they were rushed, or the cue maker couldn't be bothered that day.

The company I work for manufacture products. They are higher priced than (I think) all of our UK based competition, however we ensure that the products are nothing but the best possible every time. If there is a fault, they are remade. Working in the bespoke products department, I make sure that what you want is perfect for what you need, which makes the whole worry filled episode as easy for the customer as possible, and ensuring that the customer is happy at the end of the process, leading to them coming back to me next time. I can understand Robert's decision to go down the mass produced route, as I know exactly how annoying customers can be when they keep making a change here or there compared to producing the same (or similar) product every time. His work load is almost halved as there is no need to continually compare what you have produced to spec required.

Making life a bit easier for yourself is not losing (or selling) his soul as a cue maker, as I am sure the cues not be of any less quality than he produces at the moment.

Good luck to Robert.

[poolqjunkie]

Robert is dealing with just a few customers(his dealers)--rather than a lot of customers--but that does not mean he is mass producing his cues.
I know what the OP means though. It would be nice to be able to talk to the cue maker and place an order to your spec. But I think things will change and this is not likely to be a premenant situation.

[cazmac1]

I asked the question and most ppl seem to think he has made the correct decision. From the business point of view I can't find any argument against his course of action but surly he could make a standard cue range like parris and sell these with no hassle from the end user?
At the moment Robert is just one Cue maker but if a few more went down this route it would be bad for snooker and snooker players in this country and ultimately drive the cost up even further then there already over inflated prices.
Thanks for all your replys I really enjoyed this thread.

[Neil Taperell]

Good original post Peter .
I will ask him if he is going to make rack cues . But when he has a batch of cues ready , all he does is ring up his 3 main buyers and they buy them straight away . So i can't see him making rack cues and them sitting there gathering dust .

[cazmac1]

Good original post Peter .
I will ask him if he is going to make rack cues . But when he has a batch of cues ready , all he does is ring up his 3 main buyers and they buy them straight away . So i can't see him making rack cues and them sitting there gathering dust .

You know as well as me Neil these would get snapped up in a flash. One thing I will say about Robert and that is at least he gave fedia his money back for the black plate he had on order, I bet fedia was gutted. Did he ever take that bloke on that he was talking about?

[Neil Taperell]

No mate he never took him on , i think the guy was from Scotland and he did not know anybody down South . Also money to start with would not have been great .
The thing with the rack cue , is he does not want the grief of carrying out alterations . You know what it would be like ....it's 57 1/2 ...can you make it 57 1/4 !!! then take 0.5mm off the tip size ....and so it begins again .

He did mention to me that in 12 months or so , if he had enough standard cues made that he would start to take orders again .....i will make sure that i'm first in the cue......er queue !!!!

[poolqjunkie]

I asked the question and most ppl seem to think he has made the correct decision. From the business point of view I can't find any argument against his course of action but surly he could make a standard cue range like parris and sell these with no hassle from the end user?
At the moment Robert is just one Cue maker but if a few more went down this route it would be bad for snooker and snooker players in this country and ultimately drive the cost up even further then there already over inflated prices.
Thanks for all your replys I really enjoyed this thread.

I see what you are saying, and I am not saying I think what he did is the best thing from a customer's prespective. I have seen this kind of thing happened before in the US Pool cue world. But from a business point of view you cannot really expect him to turn down business from a few buyers who buy out all his cues.
Because of what Robert is doing now, I would imagine once he starts taking custom orders again he will be very busy with a line up from UK customers. So, he probably is doing what is best for his business right now.
John probably has more people working for him and is therefore able to make more cues.
From a customer's point of view, I can understand why you feel the way you do.
It is a real delight to deal with a customer who knows about cues and appreciate a nice cue; but it is a nightmare to deal with one who has no idea what he is talking about and changes his mind all the time.
Whether this is bad for the cue industry as a whole is a tough one. On one hand I agree with you to an extend, but on the other it is nice to see that some companies with deep pockets are willing to buy so many cues from a cue maker. This kind of cash should have some impact in helping the industry as a whole. It is nice to see people from other countries appreciating the fine craftsmanship of UK cue makers, isn't it?
For the regular players/cusotmers in the UK, they may need to wait a while but I believe eventually he will start taking orders again. Whether price will go up or not I dont know. It is determined by the market place then. If the market decides that his cues are worth a certain amount, then that price is what they will pay.