Shifting the balance point

[cris0000food]

You could also try making it butt heavier and it would be easy to test without a permanent alteration. Sometimes bringing the balance back even further can create a lighter feel and a more self propelled action. It certainly doesn't suit all cues. ABC snooker had Northwest cues advertised with a balance point of 13.75-14.75 for a time.

[cazmac1]

High poolqjunkie, I don't think I would like to mess around with the cue too much. I might just get Dave to make a replica with the weight shifted forward. Will take the cue down to Robert or John in a few weeks or so and see what they think..

[cazmac1]

You could also try making it butt heavier and it would be easy to test without a permanent alteration. Sometimes bringing the balance back even further can create a lighter feel and a more self propelled action. It certainly doesn't suit all cues. ABC snooker had Northwest cues advertised with a balance point of 13.75-14.75 for a time.

The problem is not so much feel but it seems to me that the tip off the cue wants to raise up when I shorten the cue especially on cushion shots. This has a lot to do with my stance. I could straighten my bridge arm and this would mean I hold the cue further back and the balance would be fine. But this as I posted on an other treads throws my cuing off line.

[DeanH]

...but it seems to me that the tip off the cue wants to raise up when I shorten the cue...

Not sure if this will help, but when I first got my Shelton, if I had the butt chamfer face down (like I always used to do with my old cue) I would get the same feeling that the tip wanted to lift off my bridge on nearly every shot.
Turning the chamfer to the top, the cue suddenly felt superb and solid on all shots.
As I say, my not help but just what I found.
cheers

[cazmac1]

Not sure if this will help, but when I first got my Shelton, if I had the butt chamfer face down (like I always used to do with my old cue) I would get the same feeling that the tip wanted to lift off my bridge on nearly every shot.
Turning the chamfer to the top, the cue suddenly felt superb and solid on all shots.
As I say, my not help but just what I found.
cheers

Thanks for the advice Dean but with my new set up I'm holding the cue way up the butt so the chamfer plays no part. This is the way Del hill told me to hold the cue. I said to Del if I'm holding the cue so far up the butt should I get it shorten and he said no as you need the extra length for when your stretching. So I should really have a cue with 19 inch balance point so counter the weight hanging out the back of my hand.

[DeanH]

Hi Cazmac1
It is not really the fact that the chamfer is in the hand or not but that the chamfer is on top that I noticed that cue played better.
Now I understand that it is purely because you are holding the cue very far up the butt that is causing you the problem with the overhang.
Not to disagree with Del's advice but can I ask specifically why are you holding the cue so high up the butt? What bridge length do you have now, what did you have before the change?
Not that I am a coach but just for interest and to put your dilemma into context.
Cheers

[cazmac1]

I play with a bend in my bridge arm meaning the hand to hand distance is shorter than if you push your arm out straight this means in or to have a standard over hang of cue on the bridge hand you need to move you cue hand further up the butt than normal. This is why I should have got the balance shifted forward but at the time I was going to straighten my bridge arm but this just don't work for me.

[poolqjunkie]

High poolqjunkie, I don't think I would like to mess around with the cue too much. I might just get Dave to make a replica with the weight shifted forward. Will take the cue down to Robert or John in a few weeks or so and see what they think..

I understand, and I agree. It is probably not a bad idea to leave the cue the way it is.
After all you are making consistent 70+ with the cue so it must be working for you.
I have found that(after listening to a customer's suggestion actually) if I use a more uniform taper at the butt end (6" or so) it would feel better in the grip when I have to choke up and hold the cue further up; while if the taper on the butt is too drastic then the diameter at the grip may feel too slim on those choke up shots when I have like 4" or so hanging out. For shooting off the cushion, I personally have found that a more uniform taper at the butt end helps me because the butt diameter feels more or less the same as usual even when I am holding the cue further up from the end.

[poolqjunkie]

Thanks for the advice Dean but with my new set up I'm holding the cue way up the butt so the chamfer plays no part. This is the way Del hill told me to hold the cue. I said to Del if I'm holding the cue so far up the butt should I get it shorten and he said no as you need the extra length for when your stretching. So I should really have a cue with 19 inch balance point so counter the weight hanging out the back of my hand.

I am not a coach and probably not as good a player as you. I just want to say that I used to play with a 57" cue and actually made my first ton with it but for some reason I was always holding my cue off vertical and my grip was kind of weird (kind of like Mark Allen) and my long potting was not consistent epscially my power top from a distance. I laways felt like there was something wrong with the balance and the length. So, I started trying out shorter cues just ti experiment and now I play with a 55" cue and I feel very comfortable with it, especailly when in amongst the balls. I do not feel that I am giving up anything with my long potting. If anything I feel that I am more accurate. When I need to stretch I use my mini butt, and I also have a mini telescopic for that purpose. I do need to stretch more than when I was using a 57" cue but I feel so much more comfortable with my cueing action now. I feel I am in better control of my cueing action, and I no longer feel that there was something wrong with the balance and length.

[cazmac1]

I am not a coach and probably not as good a player as you. I just want to say that I used to play with a 57" cue and actually made my first ton with it but for some reason I was always holding my cue off vertical and my grip was kind of weird (kind of like Mark Allen) and my long potting was not consistent epscially my power top from a distance. I laways felt like there was something wrong with the balance and the length. So, I started trying out shorter cues just ti experiment and now I play with a 55" cue and I feel very comfortable with it, especailly when in amongst the balls. I do not feel that I am giving up anything with my long potting. If anything I feel that I am more accurate. When I need to stretch I use my mini butt, and I also have a mini telescopic for that purpose. I do need to stretch more than when I was using a 57" cue but I feel so much more comfortable with my cueing action now. I feel I am in better control of my cueing action, and I no longer feel that there was something wrong with the balance and length.

I was playing with a 56.5 in cue before getting this new cue which is 57.5 I had no balance issue with the 56.5 cue but it was very light. I think what I will do is get the cue taken down to 57 although this is only 1/2 an inch I think it will have the more impact then lighting the butt of the cue. It such a shame as this cue is an absolute cracker and I wish I didn't have to touch it at all.

[cazmac1]

PS
I fully understand what you mean about stretching I feel the same way too.

[DeanH]

Maybe before getting the 1/2inch removed, confirm with Mastercraft that no weight was added, if they were maybe they can be removed to reduce the overall weight and that will also change the balance much more than taking off 1/2" which as a previous posting said would not affect the balance much at all.
Get confirmation about the weights first
As you say, your previous (shorter) cue was lighter (by how much?), so maybe having the weights removed maybe the solution for your current issue
look forward to seeing your solution/outcome
all the best

[cazmac1]

I'm going to give it a bit longer before taking any action, I have sent dave an email.

[sanman]

I'm curious to know if anyone knows the relationship of the cue balance point and weight.
What I mean is if I wanted to shift the balance point forward by an inch how much weight would have to be removed from from the but end, for example if you removed say 0.5 of an oz from the very back of a cue how much would the balance point move forward.

Also can someone tell me what are heaviest and lightest butt materials
IE: starting with the heaviest to the lightest

Ebony ?
?
?

The issue of balance point and balancing of cues has been discussed many times. As Trevor White said "if only it was so easy....". Before balancing a cue the natural balance point of the cues needs to be established. That is the unweighted balance point and also the unweighted mass of the cue, then the final weight of the cue needs to be established before determining how much weight has to be added and how far into the cue in has to be added. The situation gets a bit more complex when weight has already been added because unless all the weight is removed the person reweighting it will be working a little blind as he does not have any idea of the above mentioned facts and how much weight was added to the cue and how far into the cue.