What finish on Maple Shaft to keep it white?

[DeanH]

In a slight divergence to the usual discussion of the use of different finishes on cues; raw linseed oil, bee's wax, others, etc.; I have a slight recollection of Pooljunkie (Aurora Cues) mentioning a different finish that, specifically on a maple shaft, does not discolour the wood, unlike linseed which can colour the wood to a golden/light brown. Which in traditional snooker cues (and ash mainly) is preferred but in US pool cues, white shafts are preferred.
My question, what finish would maintain the maple's white colour and not allow any discolouring as it ages? Also what finishes stop UV discolouring of any other woods (as in splices)? I have a Masur/Karelian birch splice which has changed from white to gold by the light, how to stop this?
Cheers

[cueinhand]

As I think , the best way to keep the maple shaft in original color, seal it with shaft sealer and follow with cue wax.

[poolqjunkie]

Maple shafts on most US pool cues will still discolour but just not as fast.
As far as I know, most US pool cue makers apply a sealant on the shaft then sand, polish, wax and buff on a lathe. Basically you are sealing all the pores so the chalk/dirt...etc cannot get into them. You need to sand the sealer off the shaft so they will not stay on the surface but only in the pores. The waxing just make it smooth. If your sealer only fills the pores half way then dirts will still get in. I think you need a lathe to do this type of work. Off the shelf shaft sealant are good, too.
Some maple shafts have been bleached to achieve the white colour you see.
Oil cannot block UV and it will darken the colour of your wood.
Usually what I do is that I seal the wood right after I have made a fresh cut if I want the colour to stay sharp and bright. But the wood will still darken just at a slower rate.
With masur birch I actually like the colour to be a bit more golden. You can nowadays buy some wood that has been impregented with a resin so it is harder, more stable, and will not turn its colour as readily.
Any picture of this cue?

[DeanH]

Thanks for the reply.
oops, I should have said that I was asking for a possible future maple cue not an existing one, sorry
My current masur birch is a very nice golden colour that I am happy with (see a poor photo at http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...903#post570903) and again the query was for the future.
Do you know of which oils do not have colour, like linseed oil, that can be used on cues?
cheers

[poolqjunkie]

Are you familiar with using sanding sealer? You can use that to seal the pores on your shaft, but it is much easier to do with a lathe.
Cue oil is not what you are looking for if you want to keep your wood as white as possible and want to block it from UV.
You need to look for a product that will not turn yellow over time and has a UV block feature. Wood oil (linseed, tung, teak...ect) will not give you that.

[MikeWooldridge]

danish oil

[DeanH]

Are you familiar with using sanding sealer? You can use that to seal the pores on your shaft, but it is much easier to do with a lathe.
Cue oil is not what you are looking for if you want to keep your wood as white as possible and want to block it from UV.
You need to look for a product that will not turn yellow over time and has a UV block feature. Wood oil (linseed, tung, teak...ect) will not give you that.

Thanks Airin, I am not a wood-worker, never used a sealer in my life and do not have a lathe
I am not asking about a current cue but after comments for a possible future maple cue and wondering what could be used to maintain the white look of that new cue. If possible at all.
You mentioned that some US-pool makers bleach the shaft (would that be before sealing?) - a thought, would the bleaching make the surface of the wood slightly brittle?

danish oil

Hi Mike, so Danish Oil is colourless and/or wont change colour with use/age. Have you tested this yourself?
From what I have read on this product it appears application is the same as for raw linseed oil. Have you used this oil yourself and would you okay it's use or are there any words of warning?

Cheers all

[MikeWooldridge]

of course i've used it. i've tried everything.

the danish oil i've tried does not seem to colour the wood much at all.

words of warning? read the instructions like any other oil/paint/finish product and you'll be ok.

but start by making sure you wipe off the excess before it starts drying...

btw, what's the obsession with wood colour. do normal maple cues really put you off that much?

[DeanH]

of course i've used it. i've tried everything.

the danish oil i've tried does not seem to colour the wood much at all.
words of warning? read the instructions like any other oil/paint/finish product and you'll be ok.
but start by making sure you wipe off the excess before it starts drying...

Same as for linseed.

btw, what's the obsession with wood colour. do normal maple cues really put you off that much?

No obsession, just a thought that came to me after I recently remembered reading an old post from Pooljunkie (which I cannot find the post) where he said that in America US-pool cues the maple shafts are "whiter than in England/Europe where the golden/light brown is prefered".

Normal maples do not put me off at all, my old maple that I have had for over 25 years is a lovely golden/light brown
My query what is required in the manufacture/maintenance of a new maple to keep it as white as the US-pool cues mentioned previously and the difference, if any, from the "usual" English methods.
cheers :snooker:

[MikeWooldridge]

Same as for linseed.

no. MUCH worse than linseed.

No obsession, just a thought that came to me after I recently remembered reading an old post from Pooljunkie (which I cannot find the post) where he said that in America US-pool cues the maple shafts are "whiter than in England/Europe where the golden/light brown is prefered".

Normal maples do not put me off at all, my old maple that I have had for over 25 years is a lovely golden/light brown
My query what is required in the manufacture/maintenance of a new maple to keep it as white as the US-pool cues mentioned previously and the difference, if any, from the "usual" English methods.
cheers :snooker:

yeah, but don't forget americans are mostly stupid. no offence to my usa friends, but you know it's true

pqj is canadian so he already knows that

they'll buy anything if they think it makes them better. bleached shafts are just another dumb idea, with the whitest shafts being considered as superior or more sought after in some way.

give me a grainy, blotchy, sugary bit of maple that plays right any day over one that ticks all the appearance boxes.

[hatterboard]

give me a grainy, blotchy, sugary bit of maple that plays right any day over one that ticks all the appearance boxes.

thats interesting, i never knew. i love my maple cue, but it has a few blemishes in the wood. have spoke to a few people that have tried it, all says it hits lovely.

[poolqjunkie]

yeah, but don't forget americans are mostly stupid. no offence to my usa friends, but you know it's true

pqj is canadian so he already knows that

they'll buy anything if they think it makes them better. bleached shafts are just another dumb idea, with the whitest shafts being considered as superior or more sought after in some way.

give me a grainy, blotchy, sugary bit of maple that plays right any day over one that ticks all the appearance boxes.

Yeah, agreed wholeheartedly. LOL

Actually the maple shafts found on US pool cues will still discoloured. I dont think i have ever said they will stay white forever. But you know the Americans like to buy shaft cleaner, shaft sealer, cue wax, cue wipe...and many different kinds of shaft products to clean, wipe, and burnish their shafts all the time.

Once in a while they like to send their shafts to some cue repairmen or cue makers to have the shafts recleaned and refinished...they have an obsession on white shafts but if their shafts can stay white forever they certainly do not need to do all that so often.

Some people are so obsessed with the appearance on their maple shafts they would compain about the slightest cosmetic imprefections, so some lumber supplier/cue maker start bleaching their maple to try and make their maple whiter.

Some people also say the way the maple are dried also would make a difference in the colour at the end. Some believe vacuum dried shafts will have a whiter appearance.

Personally, I think wiping your maple shaft with a dry towel is the best thing to do, just develop a nice patina on your shaft over time and you are fine. I will not even recommend using water at all. Personally most of my maple shafts look very "ugly". They are very old and are not white at all. LOL

Mike, which brand of Danish oil will you recommend? Isn't Danish oil just a kind of polymerized linssed oil but much thicker?

[DeanH]

no. MUCH worse than linseed..

okeydokey

give me a grainy, blotchy, sugary bit of maple that plays right any day over one that ticks all the appearance boxes.

too right

Yeah, agreed wholeheartedly. LOL

Actually the maple shafts found on US pool cues will still discoloured. I dont think i have ever said they will stay white forever. But you know the Americans like to buy shaft cleaner, shaft sealer, cue wax, cue wipe...and many different kinds of shaft products to clean, wipe, and burnish their shafts all the time.

Once in a while they like to send their shafts to some cue repairmen or cue makers to have the shafts recleaned and refinished...they have an obsession on white shafts but if their shafts can stay white forever they certainly do not need to do all that so often.

Some people are so obsessed with the appearance on their maple shafts they would compain about the slightest cosmetic imprefections, so some lumber supplier/cue maker start bleaching their maple to try and make their maple whiter.

Some people also say the way the maple are dried also would make a difference in the colour at the end. Some believe vacuum dried shafts will have a whiter appearance.

Personally, I think wiping your maple shaft with a dry towel is the best thing to do, just develop a nice patina on your shaft over time and you are fine. I will not even recommend using water at all. Personally most of my maple shafts look very "ugly". They are very old and are not white at all. LOL

Mike, which brand of Danish oil will you recommend? Isn't Danish oil just a kind of polymerized linssed oil but much thicker?

Cheers for the info Airin.
learning new things is never a waste of time
no harm done :snooker:

[poolqjunkie]

I have learnt and still am learning so much on this forum and it is always a pleasure.:-) Cheers.
Speaking of white maple shafts, some people may argue that as with most wood, sapwood is usually light in colour, so the whiter maple are usually found closer to the edge of the log, which means they are "greener" than the heartwood which is usually darker in colour. I am not sure if you can view this as an universial truth but just saying this is something I have heard.

[DeanH]

Interesting comments concerning the position from where the wood comes from within the log, not just colour but probably also flexibility (say "greener" = whippier?), stability (say "greener" = more prone to bending?), etc, etc.
cheers, and a Happy New Year