Cuemaker Question - Tapers

[Izzyfcuk]

I have recently taken delivery of an Dave Coutts cue and have found that the tapering suits me really well.

Im under the perception and experience that majority of UK cues are of relatively thicker taper due to Europeans vs Asian physical size.

Hence if taper specifications were to be requested to Cuemakers...

1. Is there a standard template used to be sent so that cuemaker understands exactly how i want it?

2. Is there any classifications used?

Regards

[cueman]

The majority of cue makers turn their cues to an oversized taper on a machine that will be pretty much the same for each cue. However when it is planed down to the size the customer requires that taper will alter depending on the shaft, dimensions requested and weight/balance required, so from that point of view tapers probably vary from cue to cue. I've seen cues from the same cue maker that have had thick and thin shafts so that tells you something.

Trevor can answer this question better than anyone and he'll tell you there are various different taper shapes but I'm not sure that specs are standard.

[Bigmeek]

I think Trevor answered this a while back but I can't seem to find the post. From memory I don't think its an exact science but more a juggling act between length/weight/balance point etc etc.

[DeanH]

The majority of cue makers turn their cues to an oversized taper on a machine that will be pretty much the same for each cue. However when it is planed down to the size the customer requires that taper will alter depending on the shaft, dimensions requested and weight/balance required, so from that point of view tapers probably vary from cue to cue. I've seen cues from the same cue maker that have had thick and thin shafts so that tells you something.

Trevor can answer this question better than anyone and he'll tell you there are various different taper shapes but I'm not sure that specs are standard.

I believe that Dave Coutts does the whole process by hand plaining, no machining (lathe). May be wrong though.
Izyyfcuk - photos!

[poolqjunkie]

So, is the taper slimmer in your opinion than your usual cues?

I do not think the profile of the taper is made a particular way mainly to suit the hand sizes of people with different built.

In my humble opinion, it is more a matter of the cue maker seeking a desirable balance between spring and stiffness, feedback and transmittion of hit down the cue, along with liveliness vs firmness and things like that.

Some cue makers are more into building a cue with a very firm hit that is preferred by those who like to play a lot of stun shots but some cue makers prefer the hit of a more responsivness cue for those who prefer to play a wider range of shots. Some players like to hit the ball very hard, while some like to hit the ball more with the cue than with his muscle. Some players always play on very fast tables with fast cushions while other might be playing on much slower tables with dead cushions. Some players like to gamble on tables with very tight pockets while others only play for fun or table time...different players prefer different characteristics in their cues, and the taper of a cue can change the charateristic significantly.

Moreover, each piece of shaft is different. Some shafts are very springy, if you plane such a shaft to a slim taper it may play very whippy while some shafts are very stiff and dense so if you use a thick taper on such a shaft it might play very dead. Therefore, it is important to know what kind of taper can best bring out the characteristic of that particular piece of shaft wood for optimum performance of the shaft. I do not turn the shafts oversized based on a template because of this reason. I like to adjust the taper accordingly but that is just me, not sure how others do theirs.

May I ask why you think your Dave Coutts suits you very well? Thank you.

[mattyshinobi22]

So, is the taper slimmer in your opinion than your usual cues?

I do not think the size of the taper is reallydependent of average hand sizes.

In my humble opinion, it is more a matter of the cue maker seeking a desirable balance between spring and stiffness, feedback and transmittion of hit down the cue, along with liveliness vs firmness and things like that.

Some cue makers are more into building a cue with a very firm hit that is preferred by those who like to play a lot of stun shots but some cue makers prefer the hit of a more responsivness cue for those who prefer to play a wider range of shots. Some players like to hit the ball very hard, while some like to hit the ball more with the cue than with his muscle. Some players always play on very fast tables with fast cushions while other might be playing on much slower tables with dead cushions. Some players like to gamble on tables with very tight pockets while others only play for fun or table time...different players prefer different characteristics in their cues, and the taper of a cue can change the charateristic significantly.

Moreover, each piece of shaft is different. Some shafts are very springy, if you plane such a shaft to a slim taper it may play very whippy while some shafts are very stiff and dense so if you use a thick taper on such a shaft it might play very dead. Therefore, it is important to know what kind of taper can best bring out the characteristic of that particular piece of shaft wood for optimum performance of the shaft. I do not turn the shafts oversized based on a template because of this reason. I like to adjust the taper accordingly but that is just me, not sure how others do theirs.

May I ask why you think your Dave Coutts suits you very well? Thank you.

very interesting info mate, answers my question i was going to ask. as i like a thin taper and like you said usually with thin tapers the shaft is more on the whippy side. depending on the shaft density. i have a glover cue with a thin taper and its very stiff, sometimes to much ( shaft is quite dense). then again ive just aquired an old burwat champion with again a thin taper, but its stiff with a little whip in the shaft and seemingly can get more out of the cue ball than with the more stiffer glover cue. but suppose can be a prob for cue makers keeping the taper thin but remaining its stiffness

[Izzyfcuk]

Thank you all for the informative answers

DeanH - Pics will be up later i promise

Airin - Didn't know that tapers would be one of the major variables for characteristics of the shaft. To answer your question regarding why the Dave Coutts suits well, my playing cue is an Robin Cook, which IMO is a tat "Fatter" on the tapering as such, always felt the taper prevents the cue from sitting well in my "V" of bridge hand and sliding smoothly during feathers, untill this coutts came along.

[icem3n]

Stiffer wood allow cues to have slimmer taper.

[the nugget]

would tend to agree with a lot of this

[poolqjunkie]

1. Is there a standard template used to be sent so that cuemaker understands exactly how i want it?

2. Is there any classifications used?

Regards

1. Personally, I suggest you tell your cue maker what kind of cues you like, and what kind of hit you are looking for. You can specific perhaps the bridge diameter which is usually used as a guideline but as I said easlier you can have many degrees of stiffness with the same bridge diameter, so it is just a reference.

2. Usually a customer would specific soft, medium, medium stiff and things like that but since it is very subjecitve what one considers as stiff might be only medium stiff for another, so again this is just a reference.

If you find a cue that you really like, and you then take the measurements of the taper and send it to your cue maker that would really help. And you can also try to specific the kind of hit you are looking for because with different shaft wood the same taper can still yield different stiffness.

[eaoin11]

I remember a time, about 7 or 8 yrs ago when Parris cues seemed to suddenly become very thick, and it was my impression that this was to compensate for the stiffness of ash available at the time.

[Izzyfcuk]

@Airin - I think it would be unrealistics to tell an cuemaker specifically what taper is required, similarly with the preferred hit or stiffness etc...as is would be very personal and varied.

The conclusion is akin to specifying number of chevrons etc. I have given you my variable specs via FB previously and would leave it in your good hands

DeanH - As promised

[DeanH]

Cheers Teo
Hope it plays as well as it looks - as you said earlier
All the best
cheers

[old school]

Izzy , if you know your exact taper requirement I can tell you that Glovers have a jig which allows him to reproduce exact tapers to 1000ths of an inch.Originally it would probably have been used to replicate tapers of older/vintage/antique cues to create modern " playing replicas ". If you measured your cue every 4"-6" or 10"-12" ,ferrule to butt,diameter wise and sent the taper specs to Glovers ,I dare say he could replicate the taper exactly.However and its a big however,just because two cues have the same timber and same shaft taper it doesnt mean they will play identically,then again one could be used as a spare or back up in case your main cue is damaged or away for maintenance or re-tipping.