One Piece Cue - More Ash than 3/4 Jointed Cue ?

[snookergr]

Dear All,
I was watching several photos of Ronnies one piece cue (a close up phot when he was using the rest) and it seemed to me that this one piece cue had less ebony than a 3/4 jointed cue from the same maker.
What I am trying to say is that the actual ash seems to be longer in the cue and goes further way down near the butt before blending with the ebony, whereas in the 3/4 jointed cues from the same maker, the ash seems to be less and the ebony seems to be more ?
maybe someone can advise whether I am right or wrong in that observation and what difference would that make ?
Is it necesssarily better to have more ash in a cue ? The balance of the cue would certainly be an issue here.
Thanks !

[narl]

Dear All,
I was watching several photos of Ronnies one piece cue (a close up phot when he was using the rest) and it seemed to me that this one piece cue had less ebony than a 3/4 jointed cue from the same maker.
What I am trying to say is that the actual ash seems to b elonger in the cue and goes further way down near the butt before blending with the ebony, whereas in the 3/4 jointed cues from the same maker, the ash seems to be less and the ebony seems to be more ?
maybe someone can advise whether I am right or wrong in that observation and what difference would that make ?
Is it necesssarily better to have more ash in a cue ? The balance of the cue would certainly be an issue here.
Thanks !

I don't really think it makes much difference, most 3/4 cues have a butt length of 22 inches, 16 to the joint and the splices makes up the remaining 6 inches.

1 piece cues generally have a butt around 17 inches in length. Both three quarter cues and 1 piece cues can have balance points around the same area. My cue for example has a 27 inch butt with the joint at 21 inches, but has a balance point of about 17.5 inches.

[deant1982]

I don't really think it makes much difference, most 3/4 cues have a butt length of 22 inches, 16 to the joint and the splices makes up the remaining 6 inches.

1 piece cues generally have a butt around 17 inches in length. Both three quarter cues and 1 piece cues can have balance points around the same area. My cue for example has a 27 inch butt with the joint at 21 inches, but has a balance point of about 17.5 inches.

what he said ^
3/4 cues normally are jointed between 12" and 16" (on average, there are exceptions) and the splices add another 6 or so inches, where as one piece cues have splices of 16"/17" length. Ronnies cue is a one piece, hence the "shorter ebony" you're refering to.
Hope this helps.

[poolqjunkie]

Yeah JP's cues are uaully like that, that is normal.
But some makers would make all cues in one piece then cut them up into 3/4 when needed in which case they are more or less the same length.
Have seen some cues from Robert and Mike done like that. But not sure if all their 3/4 are done that way, or if they have always been doing it that way...
If you order a high jointed cue from John or others the cue would be 1 piece to begin with.

[Straight strike]

Would it be more expensive to get some longer ebony pieces than shorter pieces for one piece cue?

[snookergr]

Thanks everyone for the input :-)
It's funny when you see something different on a cue...you always think "..hmmm would that be better than the one I have...etc..." <-- at least that's what I do LOL
at the end of the day I guess there wouldn't be much difference -in say 2 cues of same length- the fact that one cue may have more ash or ebony than the other respectively ...right ?
my guess is it would be a minor difference; one that a player would not necessarily feel when striking the CB...correct me if I am wrong
Personally I think it looks nicer to have a bit more ash than ebony on the cue TBH

[deant1982]

Would it be more expensive to get some longer ebony pieces than shorter pieces for one piece cue?

Yes it is. I've found ebony spindles available in 18" or 24". The 24" are obviously more expensive as you get 33% more ebony. I noticed that the price isn't quite 33% higher, but close.

[vmax4steve]

My 3/4 jointed maple cue has obviously been made on a lathe. The joint is 15 inches from the butt end and the ebony splices start 21 inches from the butt end. The splices have been grafted on above the joint in the same way that a hand made cue has it's butt grafted on, ie: hand plane the maple down in four places and then glue on the ebony and hand plane or use a lathe to match the maple shaft. The ebony below the joint is one piece of solid ebony, turned on a lathe and matched to the shaft.
With ebony being heavier than maple I would say that this type of cue construction makes the balance point lower down the cue than a traditional hand made cue that has had it's butt grafted on with a plane. To make the balance point higher I would say that a weight would need to be inserted into the cue somewhere above the joint.
My old ash cue has been hand made in the traditional way using a plane to not only shape the shaft but also graft on the ebony butt. you can see this is so by the little square of ash that can be seen inside the ebony at the end of the butt, no maple visible on the maple cue. Balance point on this cue is the same as my maple one, as the maple one was made to match it, but there is a weight in the butt of my ash cue and the balance point is at 18 inches right at the start of the ebony splices, whereas I don't know if there is a weight in the butt of my maple cue yet the balance point is the same, 18 inches, 3 inches below the start of the splices.
When I had my ash cue 3/4 jointed I had the joint put just above the ebony splices as I didn't know exactly where the weight in the butt was placed. Balance point has not been effected at all.
Incidently, both cues are 62 inches long and weigh 19 0zs so the measurements, balance points and weights used are probably unique to these cues but can give you an idea of the difference between cues constructed in different ways.

[snookergr]

vmax4steve: thanks :-) very interesting I guess each cue is different and feels different than any other

[thelongbomber]

I don't really think it makes much difference, most 3/4 cues have a butt length of 22 inches, 16 to the joint and the splices makes up the remaining 6 inches.

1 piece cues generally have a butt around 17 inches in length. Both three quarter cues and 1 piece cues can have balance points around the same area. My cue for example has a 27 inch butt with the joint at 21 inches, but has a balance point of about 17.5 inches.

With due respect, I disagree with the explanations presented thus far. Wood selection plays a MASSIVE role in how a cue feels.

Don't think about a cue's "feel" like some weird science from Mars. There is a logical explanation to EVERY SINGLE AND LAST aspect of this game - including how a cue "feels" in your hand. Read on...

Ebony is a dense wood and the amount of ebony plays a very important role in how a cue plays and feels. Often, you will see cues with either ebony or rosewood in the butt - sometimes both. Both are dense woods and help to add weight to cues which is one reason whey they are used. Ebony however, doesn't give you as much "feedback" in your hand often makes a cue center or back heavy. If you want a "softer" hitting cue, get less ebony and splice in a softer wood. If you want a "harder" hit with less feedback, go with a maple shaft and ebony butt - both which add to the "metallic" hit and make a cue more stiff. Cheaper cues (like what Hendry used for years) sometimes play "softer" because cheaper softer woods are used in the butt (and sometimes painted to look like Ebony).

If you are a more "technical" player like Higgins, Hendry, Ding, then you would gravitate towards stiff ash, ebony butt, and a hard tip - which is exactly the combination John Higgins has. If you are a more "feel" and "touch" player and have a greater sensitivity to how a cue plays, then you probably gravitate towards one piece cues, mixed exotic woods, less ebony - which is exactly what Murphy, Ronnie have.

At the end of the day, what you want is a cue that matches your style and ability in the game. Hopefully the above provides some guidance.

On a side note, I know from personal conversation that Kevin Deroo has found a way to "soften" his maple shafts. That's one of many reasons his maple cues are sought after.

[poolqjunkie]

Actually if you want to look at the amount of ebony used, a conventional 3/4 will have more as the butt is solid ebony while with a one piece hand spliced cue such as that used by Ding, Murphy, Higgins, and Osulivan the shaft passes through all the way to the end of the butt and the butt is made of 4 seperate pieces spliced on the shaft, the butt is not solid ebony. Although the ebony will as you said add weight but it should not make the cue butt heavy.
As I am sure you can imagine a solid piece of ebony will weight much more than a piece of ebony cored with maple/ash.
Most of Deroo's cues are butterfly spliced and these butterfly butts are solid ebony whether it is a 3/4 or 1 piece cue. His cues are constructed differently than a traditional hand spliced cue made in the UK.
There are several woods that can be used as on the butt other than ebony. Most common choices are cocobolo, rosewood, snakewood...but bocote, zirocote, purpleheart...can also be used.
Ebony is easy to finish and easy to take care of. Plus there is a certain beauty to a classic ebony cue that is just elegant beyind anything.;-)
If a cue is built well it is a good cue be it a 3/4 or 1 piece, with a long or short ebony butt, or any other exotic butt for that matter.

[narl]

With due respect, I disagree with the explanations presented thus far. Wood selection plays a MASSIVE role in how a cue feels.

Don't think about a cue's "feel" like some weird science from Mars. There is a logical explanation to EVERY SINGLE AND LAST aspect of this game - including how a cue "feels" in your hand. Read on...

Ebony is a dense wood and the amount of ebony plays a very important role in how a cue plays and feels. Often, you will see cues with either ebony or rosewood in the butt - sometimes both. Both are dense woods and help to add weight to cues which is one reason whey they are used. Ebony however, doesn't give you as much "feedback" in your hand often makes a cue center or back heavy. If you want a "softer" hitting cue, get less ebony and splice in a softer wood. If you want a "harder" hit with less feedback, go with a maple shaft and ebony butt - both which add to the "metallic" hit and make a cue more stiff. Cheaper cues (like what Hendry used for years) sometimes play "softer" because cheaper softer woods are used in the butt (and sometimes painted to look like Ebony).

If you are a more "technical" player like Higgins, Hendry, Ding, then you would gravitate towards stiff ash, ebony butt, and a hard tip - which is exactly the combination John Higgins has. If you are a more "feel" and "touch" player and have a greater sensitivity to how a cue plays, then you probably gravitate towards one piece cues, mixed exotic woods, less ebony - which is exactly what Murphy, Ronnie have.

At the end of the day, what you want is a cue that matches your style and ability in the game. Hopefully the above provides some guidance.

On a side note, I know from personal conversation that Kevin Deroo has found a way to "soften" his maple shafts. That's one of many reasons his maple cues are sought after.

That really wasn't his question though, it boiled down to why 3/4 cues have more ebony than 1 piece cues. Thats what i got out of it at least, and a couple of others.