Ferrule length makes a difference in feel?

[MikeWooldridge]

the doctor - forget delrin/acetal. i used it years ago, but it does not glue well and you, or your customers, will have problems with sticking tips on.

it is a very useful and versatile material but not good for ferrules. trust me on that, just trying to save you some issues

Tried the impact adhesive and it didn't hold very well.

Lol...

You need to be thinking long term here. You may well get a tip to stay on but your customer will almost certainly not.

Save your time and try other stuff. Delrin is not for the job.

If it doesn't work, I know nylon 66 works very well, so will do the ferrule in that.
There are quite a lot of different materials that would potentialy work for ferrules but a lot of time testing is required.
I intend to carry on with several and work out which gives best results.
Of course brass will always be a favorite of many.

How will you test them?

[The Doctor]

I do get what your saying mike. I had already installed one on a cue and figured I will try it anyway, hence why I have.
Long term your right of course, that's why I've started trying other materials. I will test them by simply fitting some on old cues I have and fitting tips and playing with them. See how it plays and if tips remain tight on.

[Raldon]

I know Oliver Stops is using an aluminium alloy called "constructal" for joints and ferrules on his snooker cues.
Someone has experience with that kind of stuff?

[andy carson]

I would say that a shorter and thinner ferrule will throw less for sure and having tried several types I would also say I think there is more feel too, although this could just be my preference.
I have been experimenting with different materials too and have just put on a ferrule made from delrin onto a cue destined for Terry Davidson. It is a strong and lightweight material that I feel will offer a real alternative to brass. It comes in white or black. There are other materials too and I intend to try several.

have you given titanium a try yet, it revolutionised drivers in the golf world with its strength and how thin you can get it

[Terry Davidson]

Doc:

Based on the advice here from two experienced cuemakers I'm starting to get a little antsy regarding the delrin ferrule. As we still have some time left before you ship the cue would you please go to a thin-walled and threaded brass ferrule for this cue. (I would prefer stainless steel however I believe you said your stainless ferrules were not threaded and as I have some here at 9.4mm if I don't like the brass I can always switch it, but then again I have no problem with the threaded brass ferrules and I put them on using epoxy too).

Last thing I want is for a tip to come a little loose in a match and me not realizing it. When I used to use superglue gel this happened a couple of times and I couldn't figure out why I played so bad and then when I got home I discovered there was chalk residue under the tip as it had come loose. I found some types of superglue will crystallize after repeated and heavy vibration and come loose and that's why I switched to epoxy (for wood, leather and metal) and since then I've never had one of my tips come loose and none of my customers have ever had a problem either.

Thanks,
Terry

[The Doctor]

Not a problem Terry. I will email you also sir.

[jonnylovessn8ker]

so i suppose that the aim is to shorten the ferrule length and make the walls as thin as possible.
what substances are there to fit that other than stainless steel?

by the delrin ferrule doc was referring, i suppose that's inserted like the brass ferrule, where there's no core and essentially just an elongated ring, not that whole block of thing pool cue makers insert?

[The Doctor]

The delrin ferrule I made and the subsequent ones I will make out of other materials, are like traditional brass ones, where it is essentially a threaded or in some cases, an un-threaded ring.
The ones used on pool cues have a semi core and are solid for the last 1/3 of ferrule.

[sydneygeorge]

Typically what are rack cue ferrules made of ?

[YDJ]

have you given titanium a try yet, it revolutionised drivers in the golf world with its strength and how thin you can get it

I've been using titanium on my playing cues for some time.
Used it both for ferules and joints. Not the easiest material to work with but you can get ferules very thin.
Most the cues I make are for uk pool so the tips tend to be small so a thiner wall section is better imo.

[jonnylovessn8ker]

Doc:

Based on the advice here from two experienced cuemakers I'm starting to get a little antsy regarding the delrin ferrule. As we still have some time left before you ship the cue would you please go to a thin-walled and threaded brass ferrule for this cue. (I would prefer stainless steel however I believe you said your stainless ferrules were not threaded and as I have some here at 9.4mm if I don't like the brass I can always switch it, but then again I have no problem with the threaded brass ferrules and I put them on using epoxy too).

Looking forward to hear about the feedback on new ferrules.

[jonnylovessn8ker]

Other than the mentioned stainless steel, titanium, brass and perhaps delrin,
is there a good material that is:
a) strong when thinly cut and short in length
b) not scratch friendly
c) hard but not dense in mass
d) won't be easily damaged (ie, when cutting tips with knife or banging against table etc)??

Possible lessons from the pool world?

[andy carson]

Other than the mentioned stainless steel, titanium, brass and perhaps delrin,
is there a good material that is:
a) strong when thinly cut and short in length
b) not scratch friendly
c) hard but not dense in mass
d) won't be easily damaged (ie, when cutting tips with knife or banging against table etc)??

Possible lessons from the pool world?

carbon weave?

[Kevin DeRoo]

Other than the mentioned stainless steel, titanium, brass and perhaps delrin,
is there a good material that is:
a) strong when thinly cut and short in length
b) not scratch friendly
c) hard but not dense in mass
d) won't be easily damaged (ie, when cutting tips with knife or banging against table etc)??

Possible lessons from the pool world?

Being in North America where the pool cue industry is huge , I've had the opportunity to experiment with 13 different
types of ferrule materials ,(some that were specifically designed for the cue industry, although not necessarily for
snooker cues) all of which are of some form of a plastic base.
The one material that performed the best to lower cue ball deflection is what is commonly known
as a "fiber ferrule" (black or white) . Its tough ,has excellent gluing properties and can produce a nice finish. What is most important though is its hardness which is very similar to Maple and Ash shaftwood end-grain which is what you want to reduce cue ball deflection to a maximum but still maintain a great hit quality. Its been in use in the cue industry here for probably 60 years
and I"ve seen some on original shafts that were 40 years old ,so its durable too.
I would not recommend a length shorter than 3/8" and it requires a wall thickness of at least .055"
There were several other materials that reduced cue ball deflection as well but proved to be too soft or just didn't have
the durability to last.
Titanium turned out to be too fussy to work with and there was no advantage over using thin walled Stainless steel.
Phenolic plastics and carbon weave are all too hard but still slightly better than brass for reducing deflection .
There is no glue that will stick to Delrin -long term- except a specialty glue that actually surface melts the plastic.

[thelongbomber]

I personally think the length, wall thickness, and material does make a difference. How much is very subjective and difficult to measure.
I've been using a titanium ferrule for a while. It's half the weight of brass and much stronger so you can have a thinner wall, giving a larger diameter wooden tenon. Good for smaller diameter pool tips imo.

YDJ, where do you get your titanium ferrules? I'm thinking of having one put on my cue.