straight cue?

[Cue_Seeker]

I am having the hardest time understanding the physics behind the arguments and explanations on straight cues. In this post I will only talk about the straightness of the cues, and will not get on the topic of the quality and feel of the cue during play, you can be the judge of that, but I personally would love to play with a cue straight as possible at my level to correct some flaws of my stroke, and so to figure out whether they are caused by the cue or my technique.

A perfectly straight tapered cue all the way to the butt, which still counts for a big portion of the cues made today, should for no reason give a wobbled/imperfect roll. One thing i heard being mentioned a lot is that nowadays a lot of the cues were not meant to be straight tapered, that is a fine.

But what does not make sense to me, it's how people say the cutoff at the butt affects the roll and thus making the roll wobble. This does not make sense to me as the center of gravity for a normal straight tapered cue is around 1/4 of the cue length from the butt, and the cutoff occurs only for a few inches at the butt, it is well behind the center of gravity, which means during the roll, unless weight is effectively and strangely tilted to the end of the butt at the cutoff, the roll will not be affected by the cutoff. During the roll, all contacts between the cue and the table will be the circular parts of the cue, the cutoff simply never meets the table or affect the roll in any way due to the fact that the center of gravity is far in-between the butt and the shaft.

It is understandable that handcrafted cues may not always able to achieve a perfect straight taper, but the thing is, they were meant-to-be straight tapered cues and a better roll is an indication of straighter cue. It seems to me that cuemakers are just using the cutoff as an excuse for warped cues.

If a straight tapered cue should look down to be straight, why should it not give a perfect roll if it also had a perfect joint? It just doesn't make sense.

And to conclude, just as how they say a straight cue could give wobbled roll and vice versa, I'd say there's a greater chance for one to look down on cue only warped a little bit and still tell me it is a straight cue, while this tiny bit warpage can easily be identified by rolling. I tested this because I've picked out a very warped cue (the shaft alone gives wobbled roll and with butt jointed its roll becomes more wobbled, it is VERY warped) and told many to look down and tell me how straight it is, majority of them couldn't tell, and even more misjudge the severity of the warp, and I personally just can't see crap with my eyes.

So there it goes my rant, I'm only trying to clarify some science here. thanks for reading.

[Samcheung001]

Some of the cue design today is not straight tapper. In particulars, they would make the butt a little bit thicker so as to produce more cue power. In this case, as the butt may not be perfectly circle making the roll wobble.

[Cue_Seeker]

yes, as I've mentioned, what I said only apply to straight tapered cues, which still accounts for most of the cues made today.

[andy carson]

how do you know the table is perfectly flat and the slates not warped on the table you roll it on?

checking a cue that way is akin to kicking a cars tryes to check if its ok.

[Cue_Seeker]

Thanks for the insight, now I would really like to see a snooker table so warped as to the extend that it shows significant warpage in a less than 57 inches in length. Slates are chosen as it is extremely hard to bend and actually warp(it will remain its flatness for a long long time). while the wood in your cue is chosen for the playing feel and other factors and not because it will last and remain its shape.

That being said, explain this to yourself, what is the chance for the slate to bend in order to explain the wobble and what is the chance for the cue to bend.
And ask yourself, what is the most bent slate bed on a 12 foot snooker table you see, and if such table is bent do you think other regulars at the club won't notice and tell the owner to replace?

If the slate is bent on a 12 foot, it will only be just a tiny bit and it explains only a fraction of the wobble in the roll.

and regarding your last comment, notice you said checking the "car" is okay. while i disclaimed in my original post that, I am disregarding the overall playing feel of the cue for the moment, meaning, I am solely focusing my topic on the straightness of the cue, while i do acknowledge the fact that straight cues may not be better cues, i just have a personal preference of playing with straighter cues and I am only talking about the physics and rationales for the warpage.

and this is akin to checking only one aspect of the car, not akin to checking the overall quality of the car by looking at that specific aspect.

[andy carson]

Thanks for the insight, now I would really like to see a snooker table so warped as to the extend that it shows significant warpage in a less than 57 inches in length. Slates are chosen as it is extremely hard to bend and actually warp(it will remain its flatness for a long long time). while the wood in your cue is chosen for the playing feel and other factors and not because it will last and remain its shape.

That being said, explain this to yourself, what is the chance for the slate to bend in order to explain the wobble and what is the chance for the cue to bend.
And ask yourself, what is the most bent slate bed on a 12 foot snooker table you see, and if such table is bent do you think other regulars at the club won't notice and tell the owner to replace?

If the slate is bent on a 12 foot, it will only be just a tiny bit and it explains only a fraction of the wobble in the roll.

have you ever played in a rileys club

even variance in the cloth will cause it to "wobble" the only way to check a cue is perfectly straight is to sight down it and rotate it slowly, if you cant pick up a slight warp in a cue then, then its not even worth thinking its bent and its more than likely to be pshycological than anything in thinking a cue is bent.

[Cue_Seeker]

Ya, but the problem becomes, that this method is VERY subjective. and there is NO benchmark to measure the straightness against, and people have different ways to judge also different standards, not mentioning the fact that most people's eyes are not sensitive to a slight even to a mediocre bend.
So when someone else telling me it's a straight cue because he sighted it down, it might as well be a bend cue to 99 others.

PS. check my edited last reply. thanks

[perpetualboredom]

I'd say there's a greater chance for one to look down on cue only warped a little bit and still tell me it is a straight cue, while this tiny bit warpage can easily be identified by rolling.

But we don't roll cues at the balls to play snooker do we?
If you look down the cue, and it looks straight, then it's straight enough!

[andy carson]

Ya, but the problem becomes, that this method is VERY subjective. and there is NO benchmark to measure the straightness against, and people have different ways to judge also different standards, not mentioning the fact that most people's eyes are not sensitive to a slight even to a mediocre bend.
So when someone else telling me it's a straight cue because he sighted it down, it might as well be a bend cue to 99 others.

PS. check my edited last reply. thanks

any reputable cue maker wont send out a cue that is "bent" they will check it before it goes out (i think mike W has digital calipers he has for this... - defunitely uses them for measuring butts!!!) that would be enough of a benchmark for me, anything else would be fussing for fussing sake and trying to deflect from other faults within my own game

if a cue has no noticable bend then 99 out of 100 times it wont be bent!

[Cue_Seeker]

But we don't roll cues at the balls to play snooker do we?
If you look down the cue, and it looks straight, then it's straight enough!

I agree, however the main point was that, I just thought checking by rolling gives a more reliable and standard measurement. If the cue is straight enough to you, that's great! but again I just made the thread to address the seemingly "nonsense" reasons some say that are giving the cue the wobble(such as the cut-off), and the reasons behind a straight/not so straight cue, but nothing more, nothing regarding the playing.
thanks!

[Cue_Seeker]

any reputable cue maker wont send out a cue that is "bent" they will check it before it goes out (i think mike W has digital calipers he has for this... - defunitely uses them for measuring butts!!!) that would be enough of a benchmark for me, anything else would be fussing for fussing sake and trying to deflect from other faults within my own game

if a cue has no noticable bend then 99 out of 100 times it wont be bent!

that's interesting, I can't comment on such "calipers" or calibrators and its effect, I'd certainly like to get to know them better, and if it provides decent benchmark to measure against, then it will be a viable way to measure the straightness.
and yes i agree, even with a slight bent cue, most misses are caused by stroke techniques instead of the cue's fault.

[jrc750]

Never roll a cue on a table, period
Not the way to do it, any decent hand made cue does not necessarily roll straight so DON'T do it

[perpetualboredom]

but you've answered you own question..

If the cue is a fully straight taper done by a machine there is no reason.. ?

The reasons you've mentioned are when the cue is tapered by hand/eye, hence if there's a high spot on either edge of the flat, or before the flat, or at the bottom corner of the flat, it won't roll evenly. It could still be straight mind.

[Cue_Seeker]

Never roll a cue on a table, period
Not the way to do it, any decent hand made cue does not necessarily roll straight so DON'T do it

obviously you did not go over my post/posts lol, I've acknowledged that handmade cues dont give a perfect roll, and it is fine, it's just that the "intention", machine made or handmade, for a straight taper, was for it to be straight, and physics would have it roll straight too.
the whole point of the thread was to ask WHY rolling is bad, and while others provided personal reasons, you gave none, but that's okay.

and thanks for replying!

[Cue_Seeker]

but you've answered you own question..

If the cue is a fully straight taper done by a machine there is no reason.. ?

The reasons you've mentioned are when the cue is tapered by hand/eye, hence if there's a high spot on either edge of the flat, or before the flat, or at the bottom corner of the flat, it won't roll evenly. It could still be straight mind.

again, what I said in my original post was the intention, if they intended on making a straight taper, it should be rolled perfect as well. as to what you said, those high edges would be considered flaws. 2 hand crafted cues from the same maker, with the exact same specifications, all meant to be straight taper, one rolls more perfect than the other, which one would you buy? I would buy the better rolled one.

Point is, it's not just judging the cue is a better or worse compared to the market, i am fully aware bent cues can well be good cues too, its just that in the example i gave, I personally would say the better rolled one is a less flawed cue.

and since the intention was to make a straight taper, the roll should theoretically be perfect if the cue was made perfectly (however nothing is perfect). What pisses me off is that cue sellers at billiard stores try to make it sound as the wobble is intentional and cannot be avoided, and that it is of no indication of a flaw.
I say, it IS an indication of a flaw as in the case I mentioned, however trivial it is.