Mike Wooldridge - *NEW* 'BlackSpin' Ferrule System

[MikeWooldridge]

BOTTOM LINE...every cue will throw somewhat when using side and it's up to the individual player to decide how much throw he's comfortable with.

absolutely correct.

in fact, i've never considered levels of throw to be relevant cos whatever cue you have, you will have to get used to it.

however, it transpires that an added advantage of my BlackSpin system is the fact it 'throws' less.

i do not play on this fact nor i do i suggest people should seek out low deflection cues.

more important for me is that my BlackSpin feels great on the shot. simple as that.

however, the lower deflection characteristics are a bonus that do make life a little easier for all levels of player, not to mention make the effort required to impart maximum amount of spin easier.

i've tested this myself and i know it to be true. also, feedback from customers has been overwhelmingly positive and backs up statements i have made.

so, there IS something in the material, or how a ferrule is put on, that affects its playing characteristics.

of course, that in itself will not make instantly make someone a better player...:snooker:

[NorthWestJunior]

I think the fact that Mike appears so confident on his website about the BlackSpin kind of says a lot to me. If it isn't that good and is overhyped, then word will spread and that will hurt Mike's business amongst buyers who are enhusiastic about their cues which is probably most of his customers as they are quite pricey in comparison to others. I doubt Mike would take those sort of risks, making the BlackSpin seem far better than it actually is risking damaging his evidently high reputation. Besides, I'm yet to hear bad words about the BlackSpin.

[narl]

Got my Blackspin equipped refinished cue today and had a knock about with it for a half hour. Im pretty happy with it, the table i was playing on was running pretty slow yet getting the cue ball from one end of the table to the other with screw shots seemed easier than it was before hand.

Theres definately a different sound on the hit and a bit of a different feel when you make contact with the White, just seems crisper. One of my achilles heels is playing screw shots with side as i seem to underestimate how much to allow extra on the contact when playing the shot, with the Blackspin the allowance seemed very minimised and i had several shots knocked in with ease with the cueball reacting sharply off the cushion to the side spin.

Im playing on Tables tomorrow night that have been recently recovered so it'll be interesting to see how much spin i can generate on long range screw shots, i can normally get a pretty good reaction with a regular cue so i have a decent gauge to see how much extra the blackspin can assist.

The finish on the cue was also excellent, very smooth and glides through the hand and thats in a room playing where just about everyone complains about the cue sticking as it gets pretty warm in there, and today was no different

[cazmac1]

Hi Mike, I've looked into his before and have played with the idea of getting my cue done, but just couldn't find the right product.
Your blackspin sounds really good but is it all just spin?. Seriously I'm sure you have seen those video's of the american pool makers and the rig's they use to test throw. If you could set up something like this and show before and after effects of fitting a blackspin to a brassed ferruled cue and show that it produces less throw. I'm sure it would generate more interest and I may consider putting it on my new JP ultimate.

[superman32]

From my experience with black spin.
I found that I can pot balls very close/or tighted
On the cursion much better.

Before I use a cue with brass . I always miss shots when white and object balls both close to
Cusion. The porkets are quite small and tight at my local club.
Even with very small touch cusion or porket side the balls won't goin.

But after I got black spin . When I was playing with my mate I start potting balls when both white and red on cusion

Then I practice many of these shots and compared with my brass frurle cues.
I found black spin feels more controal with these shots.
I am able to adjust the side and action I am putting out.

I don't know how to explain the feel. But you may get my idea.

One question I need to ask Mike.
I like to keep my cues as new shape. So with brass I can use wire wool to polish it.
But how about black spin. Is there anything I can use to polish it to keep it looks as new?

[trevs1]

i've never seen one...

if you are referring to acuerate, the reason they deflect the cue ball less is cos they have been tapered thinner at the tip end, thus reducing end mass, thus reducing throw.

as you know, this can be achieved on any cue by making it thinner near the tip end, thus reducing it's end mass, thus producing the effect of less cue ball deflection. whether that's worth an odd shaped, uncomfortable (imo), taper is another matter.

unfortunately, whether you like it or not, it is a proven fact that lighter, less dense, ferrules affect the level of cue ball deflection. every single pool cue maker in america, europe, and rest of the world, knows this to to be true cos they have been using composite materials for years and are far more experienced in this field than british cue makers, who have traditionally only ever used brass.



sorry, it is not optimistic nor misleading. terry is correct.

neither you nor i have had much experience with composite ferrules. we were brought up on brass ferrules, and only brass ferrules. canadians have used fibre ferrules for years. they know what they are talking about.

put a fibre ferrule on a cue that previously had a brass ferrule, and it WILL deflect less, and give a different feel to the shot.

whether that lower deflection/feel is preferred or not is a moot point.



correct.

however, kirk stevens made a 147 using a composite ferrule and doesn't john higgins (and others so i'm told) use a layered tip now?

the point being, it is irrelevant what was used in the past, or is used in the present. in the hands of a dedicated professional/amateur, any well made cue can be made to perform. we all know that.

but, if there are any small advantages to be had in tweaking parts, why shouldn't players look for them? it's evolution. it happens in all fields. look at wooden tennis rackets. when was the last time you saw one? and yet at one time, every champion used one...

Sorry all, lengthy post alert......

Perhaps my statement of "no throw" was a little dogmatic and too black and white. What I would say to correct myself, is that there are huge numbers of cues out there which have "virtually no throw" or, such a small amount of throw / deflection, that they enable a player to sight and play shots with practically no, or extremely minimal allowance for any cueball deflection. This is something I have known in many cues which I have personally used, as well as other cues, made by all sorts of makers. What I am saying here has absolutely no agenda or bias towards anything I might build, not at all. Cues which have these characteristics do not necessarily need to be tapered as the Acuerate cues either, and can be of variable taper. The mass, as you rightly point out, does play a significant role in cues which display this attribute, but, the flexibility also plays a major part, and this is separate to mass, which somewhat negates the demand for lower mass (even though that is massively desireable)

I would agree with you that cues which the vast majority of us here in the UK have had exposure to will have had brass ferrules, yes. However, cues which were not UK made, or, were made at a time when fibre / composite ferrules were maybe more fashionable, have been fairly easy to come across here in the UK. I know this because I have seen many, and briefly used some also, just as I would with any other cue when I was still playing fairly regularly. One in particular sticks in my mind, which believe it or not, had a black fibre ferrule. It was dreadful when striking the ball anywhere off centre, and yet, for cutting the ferrule off altogether, it was far better, though still not great and anywhere near acceptable as a trustworthy cue. As for brass, well, I have found that "some" cues which have brass ferrules with incredibly thick walls, can be appalling when striking the cueball off centre, and, can be almost totally cured of the problem by removing the ferrule, or, by replacing it with one which has a thin wall (even though this has meant reducing length slightly). My point in mentioning this is not any attempt to discredit anything about fibre / composite ferrule at all, but, to simply point out that there are aspects of a cues makeup which affect the performance of it far more than the ferrule alone.

As for Mr Higgins, yes, he likes Kamui tips, but, was no doubt perfoming every bit as well without them just a few short years ago. He has found that he likes to use them, whether that be for any actual physical improvement, or for his own psychological reassurance, it's tricky to say exactly. The same can be said for Mark Williams, who at one point was winning everything in sight using Elkmaster tips. I know this because I was fitting them. He was also using a Barracuda Gold Medal cue at that time, and not the John Parris cue he now owns. Yes, Kirk Stevens made a maximum using a fibre ferrule, but I'd bet my life on it that all others in major competition and certainly those which have been witnessed on TV, were made using cues with brass ferrules, and the majority arguably with Elkmaster tips too. My point is NOT to discredit anything OR promote anything, but simply to suggest some balance to this issue, and encourage people to think critically.
If they can.

Anyway, enough of this, I don't want to get into a major discussion about it. We seem to have differing views on it, and that's fine with me, and you too I'm sure.

Finally, I would suggest that people think long and hard before they subscribe to what "some" in the USA appear to believe when it comes to cues, and what makes different cues play as they might. One example of why I'd suggest caution is this.......

It's fairly well known that many in that part of the world, have a strong belief that even the type of timber in the butts of the cue have their own distinctive playing characteristics, just as much as the shafts play their role. Well, I'd wager quite a bit, that if a stack of cues were lined up, all with the butts covered with paint to disguise them, that people would not know the difference between one timber and another. The same could even be said for cues which are made here in the UK (or sold as made in the UK), by whatever maker, with whatever type of timber, joint, ferrule or tip. If there was an opportunity to do good scientific blind testing, there would be some major major shocks I'll bet, and I think many of us know that.

[johno]

I think it's fair to say that with the amount of cues Terry's used over the years he's well qualified to comment on different
ferrules and the throw they impart, as Terry says the fibre ferrule will throw less. On top of this Mikes been making top
quality cues for a very long time and should be applauded on bringing this product to market. The bottom line is, if you
can gain any advantage however small why not ?, we all know it's very fine margins in this game. Over the years in other
sports we've seen products develop, eg footie boots like predator to assist in bending the ball, darts and different metals
to assist accuracy, tennis, athletics, why should snooker be any different. All the reviews posted have been ultra positive
they can't all be wrong!

[trevs1]

trevor:

I just have to correct you a little bit. NEVER did I say a cue with a black fiber ferrule would have NO THROW, but rather it would THROW LESS and this is provided the fiber weighs less than the original brass ferrule. (I have owned an Acuerate cue and found it to be a gimmick as the cue still had throw and any cue can be adjusted to give less throw.)

In fact, I've just done a test with a maple 'unclevit' C-type cue where the cue had a very thick-walled brass ferrule at 9.8mm installed. I find the best shot to test the throw of a cue when using side is the break shot, since I repeat it all the time and I always use right-hand side. When I first broke with this cue the throw was significant and I was catching the second red up fairly thick and hitting the pink on the way back. I took the ferrule of this C-type maple down to 9.2mm, making it fairly thin walled and I also took down the last 8" or so of the shaft to match the smaller diameter ferrule.

I then tested the cue again for throw on the break and it was comparable to my Trevor White cue as far as thrown goes. In other words the throw was greatly reduced since my TW cue has a very thin-walled 9.4mm brass ferrule.

I've always maintained EVERY cue has some throw and the cue that will have the least throw is a fairly stiff cue with a very light ferrule (or even no ferrule at all). The whole point of this is the bulk of snooker players in the world (meaning the amateurs) do not have a perfect cueing technique and will put unintentional side on the cueball and with a lighter ferrule the AMOUNT of throw on the cueball will be less and thus they will make more pots and come closer to their intended position.

That said, I also believe a player given enough time can get used to the throw of any cue. For instance, if you made a very whippy cue with a heavy brass ferrule for a pro and told him 'I'll give you a million pounds to use this cue continuously for a year' without a doubt by the end of the year the pro would be playing well with that cue as his brain would have adjusted to the throw when he was using side and presumably this pro would not put on unintentional side.

The bottom line is, every player should get himself one decent cue (once he knows the specs he likes) and use that cue exclusively forever. (Here is a case where I should take my own advice). If his cue action is not the best he should consider getting a good medium-stiff cue with a light ferrule, either thin-walled and shorter in length brass or else a black or white fiber ferrule which is also reasonably thin walled and not too high.

In this way he will minimize the effects of unintentional side and also I think learn how the cue throws when using side much quicker. This is why I think MW's black ferrule system SHOULD help the average player since the weight at the end of the cue should be less when compared to a normal brass ferrule which is usually taller than it has to be and usually has thicker walls that it really needs for strength.

BOTTOM LINE...every cue will throw somewhat when using side and it's up to the individual player to decide how much throw he's comfortable with. My Trevor White cue has a medium shaft flex with a thin-walled brass ferrule and I've been using it for over a year now and I'm comfortable I've adjusted to the amount of throw from this cue.

A sure test is using a just off straight black off the spot and using extreme top right or left side and see how close you come to the pot. Using this pot you can quickly learn how much throw any cue has.

Terry

Hi Terry,

I admit, you did not say that in as many words no, but the part I highlighted in bold did sort of allude to a dramatic decrease of deflection, which is kind of optimistic really, and, perhaps a bit of a blanket statement. To suggest that the vast majority of players would benefit from using a cue which has a fibre ferrule, or, one with less weight at the end of the shaft, is not entirely correct.
Cues are enormously variable as I know you are very aware, and how they perform, or "could" be made to perform, is also somewhat variable. Yes, less mass at the end of the shaft is desireable, but it is not always THE answer to reducing deflection in itself.

I am well aware of the brass ferrules which have thicker walls, and never use them because they just cannot be trusted to provide a decent performing cue. Far too often they cause that issue you described above here with drastically horrible results. Strangley enough though, there are a good number of cues I have had that very issue with in the past which did not improve greatly with removing the offending ferrule, which stands to prove that it's clearly not the ferrule alone that is the problem, more like just a major contributor to it.

As I mentioned in my other "book of a post" above, I have tried cues with all sorts over the years, including the fibre / composite ferrules. The one I mentioned was one Dominic had, and we messed about with it doing all sorts trying to improve it. It was horrendous, so horrendous in fact that I'd bet my arms he'll remember it. Ask him about it when you speak with him next if you're over here again. he can't have forgotten that, it was a joke.

Anyhow, I'm off now and won't comment on this further.

[Tred]

Terry/Mike/Trevor - I'd just like to say that this is a great discussion and makes for a fascinating read.

If only all people with opposing views could discuss an issue so eloquently...

[Particle Physics]

Terry/Mike/Trevor - I'd just like to say that this is a great discussion and makes for a fascinating read.

If only all people with opposing views could discuss an issue so eloquently...

.......without abuse or swearing. Good job lads. Having lived in NYC and played pool with plastic ferrules my own take is that there is less throw, but I also found it harder to impart spin with plastic; swings and roundabouts. Just found a Burroughs and Watts 'club' cue (11mm) under a table without a ferrule. What a wonderful, natural feel it had. As I alluded to MW before, has anyone made a serious attempt at producing a cue without a ferrule? I know, it might split, but there are compounds around to strengthen wood and make it very hard, e.g. Cuprinols wood hardener (a bit like nail strengthener judging by the acetone smell), or perhaps a penetrating superglue, or yacht varnish? Such things would become an ultrathin ferrule in effect. Folk would have to be careful when retipping, to avoid shaving off bits of the cue, but that can be done. These materials would wear faster than a ferrule but so what, recoat, no problem.

[ADR147]

.......without abuse or swearing. Good job lads. Having lived in NYC and played pool with plastic ferrules my own take is that there is less throw, but I also found it harder to impart spin with plastic; swings and roundabouts. Just found a Burroughs and Watts 'club' cue (11mm) under a table without a ferrule. What a wonderful, natural feel it had. As I alluded to MW before, has anyone made a serious attempt at producing a cue without a ferrule? I know, it might split, but there are compounds around to strengthen wood and make it very hard, e.g. Cuprinols wood hardener (a bit like nail strengthener judging by the acetone smell), or perhaps a penetrating superglue? Such things would become an ultrathin ferrule in effect. Folk would have to be careful when retipping, to avoid shaving off bits of the cue, but that can be done.

most antique cues didn't have ferrules - i used a cue with no ferrule at all for about 5 years and had no issues at all with it other than trying to get the tip flush without damaging it.

[Particle Physics]

most antique cues didn't have ferrules - i used a cue with no ferrule at all for about 5 years and had no issues at all with it other than trying to get the tip flush without damaging it.

Do you remember if the throw was less than with a brass ferrule on a similar cue? How do you feel just wood and leather affected spin, stun, drag, and plain ball shots?

[gazza147]

I Played with no Ferrule on a Very Old Joe Davis Cue for over 5yrs when I was Young! and I have Never Played so well since. Yes the Wood did eventually Split at the end as playing Snooker alot but was ok when just playing pool.

I have also tried many Cues with Fibre Ferrules/Plastic Ferrules/Composite/Stainless etc and know the Different feel of these but til I personally see a Big Difference with before/after effects then I will say no more.

I would Agree if there were Before/After Video Footage showing the Difference when these New Blackspin Ferrules are Fitted compared to Todays Brass Ferrules on the Same Shaft would Only Increase the Sale of this Blackspin Ferrule Surely!.

[MikeWooldridge]

Seriously I'm sure you have seen those video's of the american pool makers and the rig's they use to test throw. If you could set up something like this and show before and after effects of fitting a blackspin to a brassed ferruled cue and show that it produces less throw. I'm sure it would generate more interest and I may consider putting it on my new JP ultimate.

I would Agree if there were Before/After Video Footage showing the Difference when these New Blackspin Ferrules are Fitted compared to Todays Brass Ferrules on the Same Shaft would Only Increase the Sale of this Blackspin Ferrule Surely!.

you are both forgetting a couple of things:

1) i don't have the time nor the inclination to spend my money on a stupid 'robot' to show/prove lower deflection. what a video will not show you, and the thing i have been telling people is how good the 'feel' is. you either trust me on that or wait until you see someone local who has it and then try for yourself. point is, lower deflection is not the reason i ditched brass ferrules. i did it cos i loved the feel/contact. low deflection means nothing to me, it is my customers who have really noticed that benefit and took time to pass comment to me.
2) i am fortunate enough not to need increased sales. in fact, just to annoy the pair of you, i may put the price up.

maybe, just maybe, if you are very lucky, in a few months when things settle down, i will attempt to 'capture' on video the effect you are interested in. but right now, i simply have no time to spare, nor the need to do it.

in the meantime...

peace x

[jrc750]

..... in fact, just to annoy the pair of you, i may put the price up.
....in the meantime........ peace x

Lol nice one Mike
Any news yet on these cues you were going to offer out to spread the word on the Blackspin ??? been 3 months now