Was the wood in older cues better than today?

[trevs1]

But the best of the 'English ash' used by Hunt and O'Byrne, Parris and some others in the 80's and early 90's was awesome. There was a time I think around 2000-20005 when English ash stocks had disappeared and players didn't like the ash we were seeing on a lot of new JP's. But I think the ash available is good again.

I think you need to consider whether any of these makers were really using English (or native) ash at all...EVER.

The bottom line is this, it makes no difference where the trees grow, England, Wales, Scotland or Ireland, the USA, Canada or the Baltic regions of Northern Europe (a place where fair amounts of this timber is exported from). The simple issue to look at is the quality.

Good quality ash (or ash which is suitable for cue production) will be heavy enough and stiff enough, end of story. It needs to be no more than that. But...... it is better if the grain is fairly straight, and it's nicer looking if the colour is fairly even and pale, and, it's also a benefit if the timber is clean from other obvious defects. For these reasons, ash from the northern parts of the USA / Canada is preferable. The growing conditions there are more favourable to here in the UK, and therefore, the timber which these trees yield is superior.

Sadly, the buying public will believe just about anything a respected cue maker tells them if they think it will benefit their game, or be of better quality in some way, making the product more desirable. A little more critical thinking would not go amiss it has to be said.

It matters not a jot if the ash grows on Mars if it's of the right quality. Please, stop kidding yourselves and start being more cynical.

[MikeWooldridge]

But the best of the 'English ash' used by Hunt and O'Byrne, Parris and some others in the 80's and early 90's was awesome. There was a time I think around 2000-20005 when English ash stocks had disappeared and players didn't like the ash we were seeing on a lot of new JP's. But I think the ash available is good again.

i'd be willing to stake money it wasn't english ash.

[Mr O]

It's a shame really that so much nice hardwood is wasted on the butts of all these CNC machine "hand spliced" cues from China. if you're going to make a tree extinct at least put the wood to good use

[MikeWooldridge]

It's a shame really that so much nice hardwood is wasted on the butts of all these CNC machine "hand spliced" cues from China. if you're going to make a tree extinct at least put the wood to good use

good point.

it should also be a criminal offence to make a mini butt out of snakewood (you know who you are people )

[old school]

There was another thread on 18th Aug , 2011 , started by perpetual ( Mike F ) " Trevor White cue for swappsies etc " that might interest you.Some good contributions from MW , PQJ ( Aurora Cues) etc and fans/users of old cues , might be worth a read it has relevance.As to myself , I have played with Hornbeam ( Ashcroft ), Pear ( Camkins and Mannochs) ,Maple (Rogerson ,Hixons) ,Service ( B & W ) and Ash ( Thurstons ,B & W,Hixons etc ) all the aforementioned cues have been in excess of 65yrs of age (one of the ash is closer to 95 yrs old) and basically I say , " whatever yanks your chain".Older cues , as Mike W has stated, can be good playing cues , but some of the workmanship is not good i.e.splices etc , ADR and others who have dealt in cues for a period of time will all tell you that good older playing cues are out there , but are hard to source and as a result if you find one, keep it.One of my favourite cues is an ash B&W Mascot 1st Edition, very simple design, perfectly executed , but one of a kind , a good looker as well as a good player.However I have also owned MW, TW , Robin , JP , NW cues of a modern construction and finish and quite frankly they are in general better made, no denying that , then again " beauty is in the eye of the beholder " anyway.There is also something to be said about a 50+ year old cue that is straight and basically that is, if it hasnt moved in 50+ years I cant see it ever doing so.

[eaoin11]

I think you need to consider whether any of these makers were really using English (or native) ash at all...EVER.

The bottom line is this, it makes no difference where the trees grow, England, Wales, Scotland or Ireland, the USA, Canada or the Baltic regions of Northern Europe (a place where fair amounts of this timber is exported from). The simple issue to look at is the quality.

Good quality ash (or ash which is suitable for cue production) will be heavy enough and stiff enough, end of story. It needs to be no more than that. But...... it is better if the grain is fairly straight, and it's nicer looking if the colour is fairly even and pale, and, it's also a benefit if the timber is clean from other obvious defects. For these reasons, ash from the northern parts of the USA / Canada is preferable. The growing conditions there are more favourable to here in the UK, and therefore, the timber which these trees yield is superior.

Sadly, the buying public will believe just about anything a respected cue maker tells them if they think it will benefit their game, or be of better quality in some way, making the product more desirable. A little more critical thinking would not go amiss it has to be said.

It matters not a jot if the ash grows on Mars if it's of the right quality. Please, stop kidding yourselves and start being more cynical.

Misnomers are common enough. I used inverted commas because it was the term used at the time. It's grain is recognizable and I guess it came from a particular source that eventually ran out.

I can still find old references to it, e.g in an old Peradon ad, and Eddie Charlton's Winning ways(1976). I'm not really concerned with whether it came from English trees but always interested in hearing more about how the wood was sourced and why it was so good. In the late 90's a lot of top snooker and pool players in Brisbane were willing to pay good money for cues with this ash because they typically played very well.

I don't know why many 'English ash' cues hit so well (kind of a 'soft' hit letting you get into the white) but I think it was probably more to do with seasoning than the fact that it had tight, dense grain. I've heard that JP said that the ash on his early cues had been seasoned for more than 40 years, and Dominic Dale wrote on cues'n'views that ash used on some Burroughes and Watts cues was salvaged from shipyards and therefore very well seasoned.

I've seen and tried a lot of cues with it and owned two myself. The local cuemaker in Brisbane had it until the late 90's, as did my Powerglide Maestro bought new around the same time (there was a little info card attached to the cue that said so, and it looks like the stuff that the JP's of the time had). And the other makers I have mentioned.

[strobbekoen]

I don't think older cues were better or the wood was better. It's the cue maker's experience to select wood that makes a good cue.

I also don't fancy exotic woods and splicings on the cue butt much, it doesn't change the quality of the shaft. I even think rosewood (plain) looks better than ebony

I know it's assumed to be a sign of quality of a shaft when the grain of the wood is straight and tight, but in my experience, that is not necessarily true. I had a ash cue (a old john parris superior i had for about 15 years, it was recently stolen) where the grain was not straight, and not tight, and it played so well. I'd like to hear cue makers opinion on that. I also have MW cue custom made which is similar to that, and plays great.

[charlesg]

Plays great don't mean a great piece of ash, cue makers able to turn a general ok ash into a great feel cue, that is the formula.

I don't think older cues were better or the wood was better. It's the cue maker's experience to select wood that makes a good cue.

I also don't fancy exotic woods and splicings on the cue butt much, it doesn't change the quality of the shaft. I even think rosewood (plain) looks better than ebony

I know it's assumed to be a sign of quality of a shaft when the grain of the wood is straight and tight, but in my experience, that is not necessarily true. I had a ash cue (a old john parris superior i had for about 15 years, it was recently stolen) where the grain was not straight, and not tight, and it played so well. I'd like to hear cue makers opinion on that. I also have MW cue custom made which is similar to that, and plays great.