Stiff vs flex

[Jami]

"Facts" about throw of the cue ball and stiffness of the shaft? Im in this believe that stiffer the shaft more it pushes the cue ball off line when using side. Is my theory all wrong? Of course there is more than that in throw but if we are only talking bout shaft.

[nrage]

IMO, from what I've read/seen the #1 cause of throw is cue end mass. Or in other words, how heavy the last 5 inches of the cue is. Low deflection cues are typically hollowed and have low weight ferules etc to achieve less deflection.

[Terry Davidson]

Regarding shaft flex, you will get more throw with a less stiff cue however as nrage states, the most important contributor to throw when using side is the end weight of the cue.

Shaft flex is very difficult and subjective to measure if you're thinking of ordering a cue. The method I use is I have 5 shaft flex categories graduated to stiff, they are: whippy, whippy-medium, medium, medium-stiff and stiff. Now the problem is to try and identify the amount of flex for a category.

What I use is I've always found the average John Parris cue to be on the stiff side of medium-stiff and I try and get the cuemaker to use that to judge and make me a straight 'medium' flex which I believe is the best for both control in the balls and long potting. A stiff cue may give long potting accuracy but you have to have a very good cue action to use a stiff cue.

What I did once is I found a Will Hunt ash cue which has the perfect (or at least what I felt to be perfect) medium flex and I measured the shaft diameter and found it rose 1mm for every 3" of length of the cue, in other words a pure conical taper. I then ordered this taper in a cue from Aurora as an experiment and found the flex was exactly what I wanted.

Every player will prefer his own shaft flex so when buying used cues see if you can get the seller to give you what he feels is the flex of the shaft but remember everyone's perception may be different to yours.

Terry

[Jami]

Thanks nrage and TD. Interesting stuff..

[superman32]

Taper is the most important thing regarding how a cue plays.

Ever u got a nice solid piece ash but if maker taper it wrong such as too slim near the top end or almost straight at the top.
The cue will have lot more throw.

[Inoffthered]

IMO, from what I've read/seen the #1 cause of throw is cue end mass. Or in other words, how heavy the last 5 inches of the cue is. Low deflection cues are typically hollowed and have low weight ferules etc to achieve less deflection.

Or a blackspin

[alabadi]

Shaft flex is very difficult and subjective to measure if you're thinking of ordering a cue. The method I use is I have 5 shaft flex categories graduated to stiff, they are: whippy, whippy-medium, medium, medium-stiff and stiff.

What I use is I've always found the average John Parris cue to be on the stiff side of medium-stiff and I try and get the cuemaker to use that to judge and make me a straight 'medium' flex which I believe is the best for both control in the balls and long potting.

I measured the shaft diameter and found it rose 1mm for every 3" of length of the cue, in other words a pure conical taper. I then ordered this taper in a cue from Aurora as an experiment and found the flex was exactly what I wanted.

Terry

Hi Terry would the same flex stiffness apply for two identical spec cues but one with Ash and the other a Maple shaft.

Alabbadi

[trevs1]

This subject could be discussed forever, but there's no simple answer.

Some of what's posted above might have some truth, but it's not realistic to apply it to every cue with similar (or even the same) characteristics. Length, weight, the ferrule or even the tip can have a profound affect on the behaviour of any cue, so, to suggest that by purely selecting a certain "stiffness" of timber, the performance of a cue can be assessed in terms of limiting deflection is maybe only partly accurate. Likewise, the taper of any cue can only act as a contributory factor in its performance, because the strength and rigidity of each individual piece of timber in various shafts will affect the level of flex it holds. An example of how two cues, with exactly the same stiffness of shafts can be made to "feel" very different is in how they may be weighted. A cue with less weight (especially towards the butt end of the cue) is likely to be stiffer than the cue with more weight at this point. So, from this alone, we can see that it's not simply about just taper, or just stiffness of the wood in the shaft, there are other considerations.

Cues are NOT a precise science, and while there are generalised guidelines we can stick to in order to produce great performing cues, there are NEVER any guarantees that a cue will be exactly like this or that. If anyone tells you differently, they are either not sure of what they are saying, or are lying to you. It's pretty much as simple as that.

[Jami]

Thank you all for the info. Asked the question just to get some knowledge to help me to make cues to play in certain way. Although the learning will happen there in the dust, i think. When i first started to try and make a cue, all i had was other cues wich i tryed to mimic.(before i found this forum) It is really good thing for us hobbyist that many of the best cuemakers in the world are members of this fine forum and they are willing to share some of their knowledge. Thats something that you won´t find in any book.

[Particle Physics]

Thank you all for the info. Asked the question just to get some knowledge to help me to make cues to play in certain way. Although the learning will happen there in the dust, i think. When i first started to try and make a cue, all i had was other cues wich i tryed to mimic.(before i found this forum) It is really good thing for us hobbyist that many of the best cuemakers in the world are members of this fine forum and they are willing to share some of their knowledge. Thats something that you won´t find in any book.

Post some pictures of your cues. What are they like, how much do you charge, etc? If someone is making cues in England from scratch, folk on TSF will be interested mate, and so will their wallets.

[trevs1]

Thank you all for the info. Asked the question just to get some knowledge to help me to make cues to play in certain way. Although the learning will happen there in the dust, i think. When i first started to try and make a cue, all i had was other cues wich i tryed to mimic.(before i found this forum) It is really good thing for us hobbyist that many of the best cuemakers in the world are members of this fine forum and they are willing to share some of their knowledge. Thats something that you won´t find in any book.

There is no clear cut method to building cues which will play in a guaranteed definitive way.....fact.

There are, as I said above, ways to ensure you have the best chances of producing cues which perform well, but these are generalised rules which "should" bring about the desired results. Once a cue is made, if it's used (and if it's in the hands of someone who can tell) it can be improved by certain adjustments / alterations (sometimes, and only up to a point)

However, there are exceptions to that, and some cues, even though they may appear perfectly good, solid, strong and of good average specs, play as shockingly badly as you could ever imagine. This will be true on occasion for cues made by ANY MAKER..... FACT.

I'm not so sure on the "willing to share knowledge" bit either, but, I am happy to give my views based on my experience, on what I see as the truth and what is likely to be for the benefit of those who read here, and not for my own pockets.

[Jami]

PP: Well, im not from England. Finland is my location. And not really interested anyones wallets Just enjoying the path. If you want to see some pictures, there is some http://cueporn.tumblr.com/tagged/Seppo-Ilmarinen