Ash shaft stiffen over time?

[thienyo12]

Hi fellas,

Got my hands on the much long anticipated ultimate. Cue plays well, but my question is will the ash shaft
stiffen over time?

Before this cue, I owned an ultimate that was 20+ old which was quite stiff. I was wondering if the ash would become more dense and more stiff, because at the moment It feels as though its quite whippy (maybe because the ash is still young?).

Let me know what you guys think!

-TN

[trevs1]

No, if anything, many timbers actually soften slightly over time. (Though not to any massively noticeable degree.)

Having said that, as the cue ages, any change in it won't ever be noticed because you'll be using it regularly.

[Samcheung001]

No, if anything, many timbers actually soften slightly over time. (Though not to any massively noticeable degree.)

Having said that, as the cue ages, any change in it won't ever be noticed because you'll be using it regularly.

Despite trevor white cue is what I think currently one of the best 3 in the world if not the best and I also target to own my first trevor white, I have to say that I do not agree. 2 reasons why I think the cue would be more stiff as time goes by. First, it would dry out and second the cue oil applied would crystallized inside the cue.

[sanman]

What utter nonsense. Not the Trevor white bit mind u but oil crystalizing? ?????wood drying out? Do cue makers use woods that are not properly dried. Again what nonsense

Despite trevor white cue is what I think currently one of the best 3 in the world if not the best and I also target to own my first trevor white, I have to say that I do not agree. 2 reasons why I think the cue would be more stiff as time goes by. First, it would dry out and second the cue oil applied would crystallized inside the cue.

[thienyo12]

Cheers for the contribution guys!

I always had the mentality that Ashs would stiffen overtime. But I wasn't definitely sure. If Ash woods do not stiffen over time, why is it that many cue makers would wait for Ash to age before using them to manufacture a cue, for example parris cues (renowned for their duration in making a cue).

-TN

[ADR147]

generally older cues are a bit softer.

[warren132]

Cheers for the contribution guys!

I always had the mentality that Ashs would stiffen overtime. But I wasn't definitely sure. If Ash woods do not stiffen over time, why is it that many cue makers would wait for Ash to age before using them to manufacture a cue, for example parris cues (renowned for their duration in making a cue).

-TN

Nothing to do with stiffness the reason they leave it so long is to let the wood settle...as the wood drys out it has a tendancey to bend/warp slightly. So in effect the longer you can leave it then the less it could warp/bend.

[ADR147]

Nothing to do with stiffness the reason they leave it so long is to let the wood settle...as the wood drys out it has a tendancey to bend/warp slightly. So in effect the longer you can leave it then the less it could warp/bend.

not sure about that - wood is weird that way it can be straight for 10 years then bend overnight etc etc etc - it does what it likes and it's impossible to predict.

[Samcheung001]

What utter nonsense. Not the Trevor white bit mind u but oil crystalizing? ?????wood drying out? Do cue makers use woods that are not properly dried. Again what nonsense

It is appreciated to have in this forum rational debate instead of grumbling without making any points. What I said is not my own view but my 'knowledge' from various people playing different roles in snooker industry. One would be respected if he knows how to respect the others.

[narl]

not sure about that - wood is weird that way it can be straight for 10 years then bend overnight etc etc etc - it does what it likes and it's impossible to predict.

Yup, its odd how it works, you get all the advice about not leaving cues leaning against walls etc but theres no guarantee that will cause them to warp either as evidenced by an old cue of mine standing in a corner for close to 10 years. My 3/4 cue that was in a case actually had the butt wood expand slightly below the joint so i had to send it away to get refinished to get it level again.

Very odd.

[sanman]

Apprecaited. And sorry for being caustic mate but debate is possible when there is something that can be disputed or logically challenged. But mate iol DOESNT crysrtallize. If it did it is not oil. Thats a fact and not open to dispute.

It is appreciated to have in this forum rational debate instead of grumbling without making any points. What I said is not my own view but my 'knowledge' from various people playing different roles in snooker industry. One would be respected if he knows how to respect the others.

[trevs1]

Maybe it would have been better if I'd not replied to this.

Timber (for shafts anyway) used to produce cues within the UK will usually be dried down to perhaps as low as 6% - 8% moisture.
When that timber is finished into a cue, and, when that cue goes into service (is used and owned by someone), it will almost certainly pick up some moisture (perhaps a few percent). Now, this is because timber will ALWAYS try to get to the point where it is equal in moisture content with whatever its surroundings / environment are (relative humidity). Almost all places where a cue would spend much of its life will be well above that 6% - 8%, and so, that means that over time, the timber in the shaft is actually more likely to "gain" moisture, and not lose it. So, the myth that flies around about cue shafts "drying out", is complete garbage. Timber DOES get harder and stiffer as it dries yes, but that really refers to the green (naturally wet) state, and not really when it's already dried to a decently low level.

For many timbers over a really long time, the structure of the cells of the wood weakens slightly, and, that can make it a little softer, but not to any massive or hugely noticeable degree.

The simple truth is that it's nothing to be concerned about, and neither is it anything that can be altered with treatment of oils or other finishes.

If the cue works as it is, then happy days, just keep using it.

[thienyo12]

Maybe it would have been better if I'd not replied to this.

Timber (for shafts anyway) used to produce cues within the UK will usually be dried down to perhaps as low as 6% - 8% moisture.
When that timber is finished into a cue, and, when that cue goes into service (is used and owned by someone), it will almost certainly pick up some moisture (perhaps a few percent). Now, this is because timber will ALWAYS try to get to the point where it is equal in moisture content with whatever its surroundings / environment are (relative humidity). Almost all places where a cue would spend much of its life will be well above that 6% - 8%, and so, that means that over time, the timber in the shaft is actually more likely to "gain" moisture, and not lose it. So, the myth that flies around about cue shafts "drying out", is complete garbage. Timber DOES get harder and stiffer as it dries yes, but that really refers to the green (naturally wet) state, and not really when it's already dried to a decently low level.

For many timbers over a really long time, the structure of the cells of the wood weakens slightly, and, that can make it a little softer, but not to any massive or hugely noticeable degree.

The simple truth is that it's nothing to be concerned about, and neither is it anything that can be altered with treatment of oils or other finishes.

If the cue works as it is, then happy days, just keep using it.

Thanks alot for the reply, I really appreciate it!

Just to touch on about oils, Does applying oil mean that your adding more % in regards to moisture to the wood? Would that also affect the stiffness/appearance(colour shaft)?

Thanks guys

[sberry]

I'd be more worried about spending that much money on an ultimate and waiting that long for it only to find it has a whippy shaft or like the one on ADRs thread, wasn't very good in his opinion.

[Samcheung001]

Apprecaited. And sorry for being caustic mate but debate is possible when there is something that can be disputed or logically challenged. But mate iol DOESNT crysrtallize. If it did it is not oil. Thats a fact and not open to dispute.

Well, have you tried to put some cue oil on the table and see what happen after some time ? I had and it turned into solid and that's what I mean. Sorry if the word 'crystallize' causes any confusion.