Copy of Blackspin by Stamford ???

[superman32]

I don't know what is inside the NEW ZENith Ferrule because i have never seen one yet.

However, my first impression when i saw Stamford's website is that the NEW ZENITH FERRULE is described very very same to Mike's Black spin. The whole concept just sounds and looks same to me with black spin. Even the wodks and functions according to Stamford looks similar to Mike's blackspin.

Like i said before Blackspin came out i have tried black carbon fiber ferrules. I never liked them because they are soft.
But after reading Mike's site and many reviews on the 80+ pages threat i decided to give it a try. The result turned out incredible.
It is different from American style black ferrule, night and day different.

When i am looking at Stamford's web the " Zenith system" caught my eyes. The "system" first only appear when Mike describe his black spin. Now when i saw it on Stamford's web of course it reminds me to Blackspin. So that is why i am saying that is copy.

[cueman]

Its called marketing and last I checked its not illegal to copy any marketing spiel which is all it is. Whether it works as well as the manufacturer says who knows but from my experience of working in marketing in the past a lot of it is BS but then what isn't in this life!

[Guy3103]

Its called marketing and last I checked its not illegal to copy any marketing spiel which is all it is. Whether it works as well as the manufacturer says who knows but from my experience of working in marketing in the past a lot of it is BS but then what isn't in this life!

That's exactly my position on this... well said mate!!

[raymo147]

So in theory you can market any products you like no matter how similar it may be to other makers?
Don't think a lot can be done about it!

[cueman]

So in theory you can market any products you like no matter how similar it may be to other makers?
Don't think a lot can be done about it!

Yep pretty much, that is why Apple and Samsung keep suing each other regarding patents. Its daft, once you bring something new out others will follow, if your product is good people will buy it but to expect nobody to copy your idea is a bit naive. Don't think stamford will be the last either, I should imagine a few other cue makers will follow suit, especially if it becomes popular or customers ask about it.

[eaoin11]

Yep pretty much, that is why Apple and Samsung keep suing each other regarding patents. Its daft, once you bring something new out others will follow, if your product is good people will buy it but to expect nobody to copy your idea is a bit naive. Don't think stamford will be the last either, I should imagine a few other cue makers will follow suit, especially if it becomes popular or customers ask about it.

And in a sense this is fair. Those who invest in new technology deserve to profit but in the process they actually transform the market, one in which other manufacturers have also already made a huge investment. They can't be expected to sit still and let someone else grab their market share.

[snookerbum]

i would love to try one of those black spin ferules......but i live way over here in canada ...it would cost me too much to send my cue to get fitted ......?

[The Doctor]

I feel I need to add to this thread. I did experiment with some black materials and spoke about it on here(before Mike brought out his blackspin), so to say that it has not been thought of or even tried before, is wrong. With respect to Mike, I applaud anyone trying to improve the standard cue. I worked on it with several materials, all be it a standard threaded ferrule, and I found it to offer a different and in some ways better hit, than brass. Certainly, Mike has used a core method( which has been used before in USA) and again, I applaud him in doing something different, but just wanted to point out, I had been doing BLACK FERRULES before the blackspin had come out.

[narl]

Was just watching a youtube upload of the match in question, Ebdon at the end sounds like he's reading off a script endorsing the cue and ferrule.

Go to 1 hour 40 mins 41 seconds to hear him talking about it.

[The Doctor]

Just wanted to add, obvious copying of an original design or idea that has been patented, is wrong but to offer an alternative that looks similar but is not the same and is different, can't be classed as the same. Loads of manufacturers offer laminated tips but each one slightly different.

[cueman]

I hear what you are saying Narl but I doubt that Ebdon is the type to use a cue unless he was really 100% happy with it and you can't get better than beating the in form player of the moment with it. Of course he is going to mention the maker, what player doesn't these days when it comes to cues? I imagine as they worked with Ebdon on this ferrule that there is a chance of royalties but I somehow doubt that was Ebdon's motivation when he worked with them on this.

I first noticed he was using this cue in the PTC last week, I started a thread about it and I have to say without even knowing about the cue I could tell this was performing much better than his old cue. He seemed to be getting huge amounts of spin with very little effort and I was impressed with his performance. Whether or not this is totally down to the ferrule or perhaps the shaft is very responsive too, who knows, but its certainly something for people to consider.

[MikeWooldridge]

I feel I need to add to this thread. I did experiment with some black materials and spoke about it on here(before Mike brought out his blackspin), so to say that it has not been thought of or even tried before, is wrong. With respect to Mike, I applaud anyone trying to improve the standard cue. I worked on it with several materials, all be it a standard threaded ferrule, and I found it to offer a different and in some ways better hit, than brass. Certainly, Mike has used a core method( which has been used before in USA) and again, I applaud him in doing something different, but just wanted to point out, I had been doing BLACK FERRULES before the blackspin had come out.

relax old chap, i'm not pointing any fingers at your own experiments. i even offered help/advice in suggesting you avoid acetal/delrin if i remember rightly? or was that raymo?

anyway, i did black ferrules in the 90's so i beat you there by a few years

my point at this stage was that i brought this particular 'look' (and associated benefits) to the public and it has rapidly become associated with my products.

i would suggest to anyone that if they worked hard as hard i did, invested loads of money, and came up with something very different to what is generally accepted, they too would feel a little aggrieved at what appeared to be a direct copy or attempt to mimic.

but i'm over it, i have other ideas coming...

also, i have a load of different materials, all low deflection, which i will be selling shortly as direct replacement ferrules for anyone wishing to test out the low deflection theory on their own cue without the cost of my blackspin concept.

there will be black, ivory (not real) and some very unique looking ferrules amongst that i can tell you

[fred.england]

Omg mike, you spend that much time thinking up new ideas I'm surprised you have any time to actually make any cues!!!! Lol

Keep up the good work and I for one cannot wait to see your next snooker brainwave.....

[The Doctor]

Oh Mike I was not for one minute trying to say it was my idea to start with and would never be disrespectful, especially of someone as experienced and knowledgeable as yourself. You did put me right with regards the selection of materials and as before I thank you for taking the time to do so.
I guess what I was trying to say was, that although someone might do something one was and someone does it another way with similar looking results, it does not take away from the beauty the concept.
Mike, your blackspin ferrules are getting excellent reviews and I'm in no doubt it is fully merited after all the experimenting and time it took to come up with it. I think it's really good for manufacturers and designers to sometimes look out of the norm and come up with alternatives. Great product mike.

[jim evans]

I hear what you are saying Narl but I doubt that Ebdon is the type to use a cue unless he was really 100% happy with it and you can't get better than beating the in form player of the moment with it. Of course he is going to mention the maker, what player doesn't these days when it comes to cues? I imagine as they worked with Ebdon on this ferrule that there is a chance of royalties but I somehow doubt that was Ebdon's motivation when he worked with them on this.

I first noticed he was using this cue in the PTC last week, I started a thread about it and I have to say without even knowing about the cue I could tell this was performing much better than his old cue. He seemed to be getting huge amounts of spin with very little effort and I was impressed with his performance. Whether or not this is totally down to the ferrule or perhaps the shaft is very responsive too, who knows, but its certainly something for people to consider.

well ive got to say how anybody played with ebdons cue is a miricle on its own so any new cue would be better,if he had done this yrs ago he might have done a lot more in snooker