Graeme Dott's Parris Ultimate No.2050

[ADR147]

If some people put as much effort into their game as they do looking at the accuracy of splicing being out a few mm they'd be able to compete with the top 16!!

have you ever played a top 16 player? i am a good player i can win a frame in one visit but if i spent 8 hours a day on the table for the next decade i would still not be able to compete, the top players really are much much better than you think, in clubs they never miss anything!

[cueman]

have you ever played a top 16 player? i am a good player i can win a frame in one visit but if i spent 8 hours a day on the table for the next decade i would still not be able to compete, the top players really are much much better than you think, in clubs they never miss anything!

I think you are missing the point a little here Andrew. I think what he is saying is too many people are hung up about the aesthetics of these cues rather than buying them to play with. Yes everyone wants perfection but as I've said countless times before what do any of us buy cues for, to look at or to play with. I can't help but feel that those who moan so much about splicing are often the types of player that will never become any good at the game because they value looks over the way the cue plays.

You buy an Ultimate or any top of the range cue to play with, if not then buy collectable cues or furniture if you get more joy out of the beauty of the design and accuracy from the skills of the woodturner or cabinet maker, its obvious snooker is not for you.

[biggus stickus]

I think you are missing the point a little here Andrew. I think what he is saying is too many people are hung up about the aesthetics of these cues rather than buying them to play with. Yes everyone wants perfection but as I've said countless times before what do any of us buy cues for, to look at or to play with. I can't help but feel that those who moan so much about splicing are often the types of player that will never become any good at the game because they value looks over the way the cue plays.

You buy an Ultimate or any top of the range cue to play with, if not then buy collectable cues or furniture if you get more joy out of the beauty of the design and accuracy from the skills of the woodturner or cabinet maker, its obvious snooker is not for you.

Really?? And what if you decide to stop playing and sell the cue or find you just dont play as well with your "Ultimate" that has uneven splices (or not for that matter) as you do with your old Mastercue or whatever and you wish to sell it. Straight away you will get offered less than what you could have should it have been spot on. I think your the one missing the point Cueman, WHY should someone accept a product thats not quite right after paying a premium price for it as far as cues go. No one expects perfect and every splice exact but the one I saw the other day that was 10mm out was a disgrace. Now whether it was a fake or not (it didnt really look it) is beside the point, for a Thousand Pounds the cue purchased should be made as good as possible and have splices at least within 1mm.

This really has nothing to do with playing ability it is about customer service and supplying a top class product comparable in price and quality to others. As was mentioned earlier Mike W would not even release a cue amongst his top range that he is not happy with so I would expect exactly the same from JP when mine arrives.

[SouthPaw]

Some people on here have a vested interest in JP lol I joke, these debates never get anywhere and usually both sides have a point, I think JP obviously produces excellent cues but he doesn't seem to care as much as TW MW DC RC etc about customer satisfaction, but if you were him would you? With all the fan boys he'd sell an abortion full price and some fool would buy it...

[ADR147]

I think you are missing the point a little here Andrew. I think what he is saying is too many people are hung up about the aesthetics of these cues rather than buying them to play with. Yes everyone wants perfection but as I've said countless times before what do any of us buy cues for, to look at or to play with. I can't help but feel that those who moan so much about splicing are often the types of player that will never become any good at the game because they value looks over the way the cue plays.

You buy an Ultimate or any top of the range cue to play with, if not then buy collectable cues or furniture if you get more joy out of the beauty of the design and accuracy from the skills of the woodturner or cabinet maker, its obvious snooker is not for you.

i have to say you are right about what people go for, players go for plain butts and poseurs go for fancy splicing basically eh!

[biggus stickus]

i have to say you are right about what people go for, players go for plain butts and poseurs go for fancy splicing basically eh!

Last fancy spliced cue I buy off you.... lol

[cueman]

Really?? And what if you decide to stop playing and sell the cue or find you just dont play as well with your "Ultimate" that has uneven splices (or not for that matter) as you do with your old Mastercue or whatever and you wish to sell it. Straight away you will get offered less than what you could have should it have been spot on. I think your the one missing the point Cueman, WHY should someone accept a product thats not quite right after paying a premium price for it as far as cues go. No one expects perfect and every splice exact but the one I saw the other day that was 10mm out was a disgrace. Now whether it was a fake or not (it didnt really look it) is beside the point, for a Thousand Pounds the cue purchased should be made as good as possible and have splices at least within 1mm.

This really has nothing to do with playing ability it is about customer service and supplying a top class product comparable in price and quality to others. As was mentioned earlier Mike W would not even release a cue amongst his top range that he is not happy with so I would expect exactly the same from JP when mine arrives.

Playing devils advocate for a moment here but a lot of cue makers will tell you that getting splices done accurately top and bottom is one of the most difficult skills in cue making. So with that in mind lets just say you have an Ulimate on order a 1pc say. Now they go through their stocks of wood and find exactly the right shaft that you specified. Its taken a while but they have that 1 shaft out of 500 that defines the Ultimate in quality, hence the reason these cues are priced accordingly.

Now work starts on the cue, its been tapered down gradually in stages, taking a few months then work starts on the butt. Unfortunately in doing the splice work there is a slight problem where it doesn't work out perfectly, the splices are 3mm out on the one side, despite every effort to get them accurate the clamp slipped when applying the adhesive and so the wood has set fractionally off. When planing it becomes apparant what has happened and there is little they can do to rectify this. What do you do, let the customer have it because its going to be a fanstastic cue to play with or do you scrap it, delaying the order even longer despite the lengthy waiting lists and then pick out an inferior shaft just to get the order out as quick as possible?

These are the problems any cue maker faces, regardless of how good they are. Difference is they can stop taking orders or restrict how many cues they make, as many often do, because they are a 1 man band. JP is a business, he employs many people and has wages and overheads to pay each month. As I've said before if you want perfection in workmanship then go to someone who works for themself who can take the necessary time and care because they are in control of their own destiny so to speak. They know their workload, know how many orders they can deal with etc, its a lot easier to make cues under less pressure compared to the size of operation Parris operates. I hope this can explain why Parris cannot guarantee the accuracy many expect all of the time. When you have 1000 orders per month compared to less than 20-30 for a one man band you can see why they are under immense pressure and cannot give the same time care and attention to every single cue. Most Ultimate, Paragon and Special cues though are made to a very high standard, its just a small minority that unfortunately don't, but you always have the option of getting a replacement made if you are not happy with it, shame people prefer to take it and moan rather than ask JP to sort it out.

[hotpot]

You point the imperfection out to the customer and offer it at a reduced price .

[ADR147]

Last fancy spliced cue I buy off you.... lol

lol - each to their own i say.

[Terry Davidson]

I have just had an experience with one of the best cuemakers on here in customer satisfaction and I am VERY disappointed. I paid a good price for the cue and when it was less than 2 months old it developed TWO cracks in the ebony at the joint. The one in the butt is about 6" long and the one on the shaft side is about 2" long.

As this cue was and is my playing cue I asked this cuemaker (who everyone seems to like) what could be done about this. His reply was he delivered a perfect product and the cracking is due to the low humidity we have in Canada during the winter and he would do nothing for me. Now there is great customer care!

I have since used a special glue to seal the cracks. This glue expands the wood and also forms a good bond so the two cracks are barely visible now. I have one more step to complete in the process to make the cue as good as new in appearance thanks to help from Andy Travis and Trevor.

My real complaint is if I decide to stop using this cue I will NEVER get back anywhere near the price I paid for it and this cuemakers used cues sell for a premium due to the wait for a custom order. I asked him to sell me another cue at wholesale price which would mean he could keep his original profit and not have any loss on the second cue, but he has refused.

If I sit here and stew about this long enough I may just initiate a string and put up some photos of the original crack and also name the cuemaker as in one of the posts above he is named as giving excellent customer care and I would like to disagree strongly with that statement.

As the cracks appeared on either side of the joint but didn't match up I believe the ebony was either defective or had been stressed when the joint was installed (which he disagreed strongly with). I have had probably over 200 3/4-butt cues here with ebony butts and some of them have been here over more than a year and I have never had this type of crack appear in any other cue. Besides which, I take good care of my cues and sell a lot of them on.

Up to this experience I had thought this cuemaker was a good guy but now I'm not so sure and I will not ever take the risk of buying another expensive cue from him in the future as he offers nothing in customer care if the cue happens to be defective.

Terry

[SouthPaw]

You point the imperfection out to the customer and offer it at a reduced price .

Exactly! In reply to cueman you offer the cue at a reduced price and if the customer now doesn't want it, it gets put on a rack in his shop still at a reduced price, also a point was made about wastage, but it won't get wasted as a "sin bin" as Mike will tell you they fly out of his online shop!

[rob s]

Just from the above statement I am 99% certain who this cuemaker is already! Really feel for you terry mate that is a terrible situation to be in (I've been in a similar situation), I hope it all gets sorted out for you anyway terry

[cueman]

See Terry is doing the admirable thing, had a problem, contacted the cue maker to try and sort it out. As this cue maker is a member on here his anonymity is protected, but when it comes to JP anytime someone can stick the knife into him thats okay. So just as I knew all along, one rule for the cuemaker members and another for JP, just so that is cleared up.

[narl]

See Terry is doing the admirable thing, had a problem, contacted the cue maker to try and sort it out. As this cue maker is a member on here his anonymity is protected, but when it comes to JP anytime someone can stick the knife into him thats okay. So just as I knew all along, one rule for the cuemaker members and another for JP, just so that is cleared up.

Well Terry said he might make a thread about it with pics, just have to wait and see.

[rob s]

See Terry is doing the admirable thing, had a problem, contacted the cue maker to try and sort it out. As this cue maker is a member on here his anonymity is protected, but when it comes to JP anytime someone can stick the knife into him thats okay. So just as I knew all along, one rule for the cuemaker members and another for JP, just so that is cleared up.

What planet are you on mate? You seem to be obsessed with John Parris, who is a member here too BTW so your point is ridiculous! There is no special rule for any cue maker well apart from you as John parris seems to be allowed sub standard work but other cuemakers aren't? I've seen threads complaining about tony glover, JP, mastercraft and even 1 about Trevor white so just stop thinking there is a conspiracy against parris cues, no wonder sanman thought you had a vested interest in parris the way you constantly stick up for him even when its obvious that the cue had poor workmanship.