handmade ??? probably not !!!

[crispian jones]

i have no issue with what tools are used, this thread is only aimed at the fact that the "handmade" uk cue trade is wide open for anyone to exploit, i stand by every word that ive stated in this thread, i have probably ailianated a few good guys in bringing this subject up again, probably wont be getting to many xmas cards this year either
But the fact is something needs to be done about it ! not that is in any way my place to do that ? but without the stirring up of what is going on this will esculate to a stage that may well ruin the name that has been assossiated not only by individuals here but the good reputation the uk has in general for the standard of high end cues !

it is now 11.37am and to prove a point i went in to my workshop at 9am and have put a handmade bagde in to one of my thai cues (a badge that i will remove this afternoon) i still need to put a joint in the butt admitedly but if i was a man with little morals i could sell this cue for roughly £380-£400 ! the cue has not seen a plane, it has not been in my lathe and it simply needs a tip putting on it and a finish !

My investment in this cue along with the badge joint tip and products i will use to put a finish to it amount to no more than £100 with about 3-4 hours labour, and people here will stil say that they dont care about the politics ect, and how the end product is the most important thing ect, to wich i think "what a crock of sh!t" !!!

if i told you guys that from now on im badging all my cues with "handmade" badges as it is abviously the way forward for me, how many cues would i sell this year ????

[DeanH]

I know nothing about making cues but coming purely from a consumer's point of view, I'd consider a cue to be handmade when a cue maker takes a rectangular block of wood for the shaft, a rectangular block of wood for the cue butt and work on them (for e.g. prep them, shape them, join them, finish them etc) with available tools.

And yes, I'd pay premium for handmade cues by reputable cue makers... then maybe a few more if I like the work done on the cue and find that they play well.

Personally, I also include if they start with a pre-turned oversized shaft, i.e. with no splices. Not always just from a plank or square stock.

[crispian jones]

Personally, I also include if they start with a pre-turned oversized shaft, i.e. with no splices. Not always just from a plank or square stock.

me too, i have no issue what so ever with that, still 100% handmade in my eyes!

[Neil Taperell]

i have no issue with what tools are used, this thread is only aimed at the fact that the "handmade" uk cue trade is wide open for anyone to exploit, i stand by every word that ive stated in this thread, i have probably ailianated a few good guys in bringing this subject up again, probably wont be getting to many xmas cards this year either
But the fact is something needs to be done about it ! not that is in any way my place to do that ? but without the stirring up of what is going on this will esculate to a stage that may well ruin the name that has been assossiated not only by individuals here but the good reputation the uk has in general for the standard of high end cues !

it is now 11.37am and to prove a point i went in to my workshop at 9am and have put a handmade bagde in to one of my thai cues (a badge that i will remove this afternoon) i still need to put a joint in the butt admitedly but if i was a man with little morals i could sell this cue for roughly £380-£400 ! the cue has not seen a plane, it has not been in my lathe and it simply needs a tip putting on it and a finish !

My investment in this cue along with the badge joint tip and products i will use to put a finish to it amount to no more than £100 with about 3-4 hours labour, and people here will stil say that they dont care about the politics ect, and how the end product is the most important thing ect, to wich i think "what a crock of sh!t" !!!

if i told you guys that from now on im badging all my cues with "handmade" badges as it is abviously the way forward for me, how many cues would i sell this year ????

Now where have i seen a cue that looks like that

[Mellow Yellow]

I see the point you are trying to make and I agree that if other cuemakers are doing this then that is totally wrong.

however I do see a market for these cues as they are...

why not badge them as UK hand finished and knock them out for £150 a pop? I would certainly pay that for the above cue! do you have one in maple? :-) you would be making a nice amount too.

I guess they will play just as well as the same cue with a retaper and a few fancy splices added but without the price hike?

[crispian jones]

I see the point you are trying to make and I agree that if other cuemakers are doing this then that is totally wrong.

however I do see a market for these cues as they are...

why not badge them as UK hand finished and knock them out for £150 a pop? I would certainly pay that for the above cue! do you have one in maple? :-) you would be making a nice amount too.

I guess they will play just as well as the same cue with a retaper and a few fancy splices added but without the price hike?

giving a price example is very dangerous as youve just proven, its a business so at £150 each it basicaly would not be a business !

also if i wanted to try my luck selling them at £750 each again that would be my choice (not a good idea mind) but you know and i know and so does everyone else here that the wording on a badge adds £100 to the sale price of a cue !
so if the wording is disshonest then so is the sale of the cue ?

[Mellow Yellow]

whats to stop you buying a load of them for yourself ;-) trying them all and only keeping the one you like, then sell the rest on??? that way it would not be a business, just personal use.

people on here buy cues all the time and sell them on for a profit.

and just my opinion but I couldnt care less what wording is on the badge, more the trust you have with the seller/maker that it is a good cue regardless of where and how it is made, but that is just me. (is any cue worth upwards of £600 except for bragging rights?) i'm sure my £200 cue plays and imo looks as good as any that I have seen for twice the price and waiting time.

you are always going to get people who will go with the option of best value for money over the big names and vice versa.

.......... but this thread has strayed from your point about honesty and trust? if I was you I would accidentally let this info about the cuemakers find its way onto here.

[Neil Taperell]

.......... but this thread has strayed from your point about honesty and trust? if I was you I would accidentally let this info about the cuemakers find its way onto here.[/QUOTE]


Read between the lines

[RogiBear]

whats to stop you buying a load of them for yourself ;-) trying them all and only keeping the one you like, then sell the rest on??? that way it would not be a business, just personal use.

people on here buy cues all the time and sell them on for a profit.

and just my opinion but I couldnt care less what wording is on the badge, more the trust you have with the seller/maker that it is a good cue regardless of where and how it is made, but that is just me. (is any cue worth upwards of £600 except for bragging rights?) i'm sure my £200 cue plays and imo looks as good as any that I have seen for twice the price and waiting time.

you are always going to get people who will go with the option of best value for money over the big names and vice versa.

.......... but this thread has strayed from your point about honesty and trust? if I was you I would accidentally let this info about the cuemakers find its way onto here.

Just leave a document detailing everything on train or in a public place. I hear that's how it's done these days

[crispian jones]

Just leave a document detailing everything on train or in a public place. I hear that's how it's done these days

ha ha like it

[Mellow Yellow]

.......... but this thread has strayed from your point about honesty and trust? if I was you I would accidentally let this info about the cuemakers find its way onto here.

Read between the lines [/QUOTE]

accidentally

[damienlch]

Personally, I also include if they start with a pre-turned oversized shaft, i.e. with no splices. Not always just from a plank or square stock.

Yeah and that too... I could have been dramatic about the rectangular blocks...

[jim evans]

does that give me the all clear to carry on making cues then lol

[Terry Davidson]

I wanted to get a cue that had exactly my specs and also a medium flex shaft and after trying out maybe over 200 cues I was not able to find one that suited me perfectly. So I decided to bite the bullet and go to Mike Wooldridge and order a cue from him but detailing the exact specs I was looking for.

In the end after a good wait Mike was able to produce a cue exactly to my specs at 800+ with extensions and shipping, and except for a crack in the butt which showed up later, (now fixed), the cue plays very well (for me at least) and I still use it as my playing cue.

The question is, could I have gone to one of the Thai or Chinese cuemakers a received the same workmanship and adherence to my exact specs. I suspect not and there would be some trial and error involved. I had tried this before with Aurora cues and wasn't happy with the results. I'm trying it again with Trevor to see what these specs in a 1pc will feel like (I know I could have ordered a 1pc from Mike but the cost and wait would kill me.)

So I think basically I got what I paid for, which was excellent workmanship and attention to detail. Would I have received the same from an overseas cuemaker for 500 less? I don't believe so unless I visited their factory and specified exactly the shaft flex I wanted, etc. etc. I believe there is still a case to be made for the British cuemakers but the price and wait times are killing some of their possible sales.

Terry

[Mellow Yellow]

I wanted to get a cue that had exactly my specs and also a medium flex shaft and after trying out maybe over 200 cues I was not able to find one that suited me perfectly. So I decided to bite the bullet and go to Mike Wooldridge and order a cue from him but detailing the exact specs I was looking for.

In the end after a good wait Mike was able to produce a cue exactly to my specs at 800+ with extensions and shipping, and except for a crack in the butt which showed up later, (now fixed), the cue plays very well (for me at least) and I still use it as my playing cue.

The question is, could I have gone to one of the Thai or Chinese cuemakers a received the same workmanship and adherence to my exact specs. I suspect not and there would be some trial and error involved. I had tried this before with Aurora cues and wasn't happy with the results. I'm trying it again with Trevor to see what these specs in a 1pc will feel like (I know I could have ordered a 1pc from Mike but the cost and wait would kill me.)

So I think basically I got what I paid for, which was excellent workmanship and attention to detail. Would I have received the same from an overseas cuemaker for 500 less? I don't believe so unless I visited their factory and specified exactly the shaft flex I wanted, etc. etc. I believe there is still a case to be made for the British cuemakers but the price and wait times are killing some of their possible sales.

Terry

you must have more money than sense Terry!

you paid all that money and got the exact specs that you wanted but your still not happy? - so it wasn't the perfect cue for you!

my guess is that if crispian sent you the cue in his pic above you would be knocking in the same average breaks that you are now!

its your time and money, but there isn't gold at the end of a rainbow you know.