handmade ??? probably not !!!

[crankie]

Almost certain i seen a new Hunt cue for around £370 lately, I'm also sure i read on here someone bought one on here and was disappointed when he found out well after his purchase that it was only finished in the UK...

im pretty sure the plain butt cues were £290 and with lower splices about £330? maybe more if bought off ebay....

[Neil Taperell]

Crispian........clear your inbox . Can't send you any PM's

[rob s]

Hmmmmm, reputations are being tarnished by the above quote.

I agree, just be careful, Rob...

Sorry but I am only saying what I think, read my post carefully it says alleged which is the key word. I am not trying to tarnish anyone's hard earned reputation I am just taking an educated guess at the 6 alleged Thai cue makers/converters by all the things said in this thread and many others. Will hunt and Jason Owen have admitted using this practice of buying Thai cues and then adding decorative splices or finishing them, either all the time or just 8 times respectively. The other 4 cuemakers have the right to deny, confirm or say nothing at all as we live in a free society here in Britain (thank god)

[stejohn]

i agree Rob to some extent, but others aren't going to come forward and admit maybe handling a few out of 100's or even thousands of cues like Jason has to then be automatically classed in the same category as others that don't make the cues themselves., otherwise they may as well not say anything, like most wont.

[Neil Taperell]

Seems to be a lot of varying opinions on this thread .

Would be interesting to have a poll to see how many members' think that Crispian was right or wrong to start this thread .

No idea how to set up a poll

[stejohn]

click on new thread, scroll down to the bottom tick poll with 2 options then i guess write a title and a description for option 1 and option 2.
Haven't done one before though so not 100% sure, not brave enough to try either lol

[Neil Taperell]

Tried to do it but the preview did not look right

[itsnoteasy]

seems to me the biggest winners from this will be Thai cue makers, why buy from UK at all, 60 pound for an ebony spliced cue, maybe the same for a ferrule and a nice finish on it from a cue maker over here, good cheap cue. Saying that i would love a Jason Owen cue.

[jrc750]

Don't think you will get one that cheap, altho would be nice
Somewhere just short of £200 is reasonable for a nice plain ebony cue

[ADR147]

I wish I had a decent Internet connection, a few thoughts though for you, Crispian you devalue the work you actually do to turn the Thailand blanks into cues, it is not a case of just badging them really. The reason that cues started to be imported in the first place was not to try and defraud people but because their ash and ebony were superb and cheaper, some of the thai cues are as good as a cue can be made. I am not sure it matters if a cue is part made abroad, the UK makers only put their names to cues that meet their standards. All of the UK based makers also make cues from the ash shafts in the UK even if some are imported, you don't buy 50 ash shafts otherwise! The reality is one of the prices cues are worth in the public eye because for example the britannia cues are openly imported cues of superb quality but sell for less that half what a UK cue would fetch. As for apple they are well known for evil business practices yet people still pay through the nose for their products! Maybe we need an AOC system like the French have for wine but it does not guarantee you a good bottle just where it is made!

[Stevie]

I really don't think it's a relevant question whether starting this thread was right or wrong, Crispian wanted to start it so he did, just like anyone can if they want. The whole point of it is very valid, from a cuemakers point of view, which by the way I am not...
From a playing point of view I really don't think it matters if your cue is machine-spliced, hand spliced, lathe tapered, hand planed, or hacked with an axe, or simply a brush pole with abit of chalk on top, it either feels right or it doesn't..
If it's your business tho and you're an honest tradesmen then of course, the subject is huge!!!!
Most people, I'm guessing on this forum have a trade, whether it be bus driving like me, selling newspapers or whatever, if the guy sitting at the desk next to you, doing the same job doesn't have required qualification but still earns the same wage as you do then you're gonna be right peeved, naturally.
Honesty like this is where respect comes from and once the dust settles here I think Crispian's morals are going to shine through and win him big respect with future cue purchasers. I for one now know who I would spend my hard earned with to deliver exactly what I would be asking for............

[ADR147]

I agree stevie but Crispian will need to charge £600 a cue to make one totally from scratch that will be no better than the customised ones. In the end the market will dictate what happens, as long as we are Still playing snooker I will be happy!

[eaoin11]

Personally, I also include if they start with a pre-turned oversized shaft, i.e. with no splices. Not always just from a plank or square stock.

[QUOTE=crispian jones;721665]me too, i have no issue what so ever with that, still 100% handmade in my eyes![/QUOT

No, just 100% made in the same place or by the same person. We seem to have a weird grasp of semantics here. If any tools are ok, then the Thai cues were part handmade overseas and part handmade here, and therefore use of the word is not misleading.
Whether you use the word or not, all we should be asking is that makers tell us somewhere where the cue has been made. JP does this and so does Dave Coutts on his website. I think that's enough.

[Samcheung001]

[QUOTE=eaoin11;721828]

me too, i have no issue what so ever with that, still 100% handmade in my eyes![/QUOT

No, just 100% made in the same place or by the same person. We seem to have a weird grasp of semantics here. If any tools are ok, then the Thai cues were part handmade overseas and part handmade here, and therefore use of the word is not misleading.
Whether you use the word or not, all we should be asking is that makers tell us somewhere where the cue has been made. JP does this and so does Dave Coutts on his website. I think that's enough.

Agree. Imported shaft, as long as they are hand planned, should still be appropriate to use the word "handmade" in the badge.

It is difficult or not applicable at all to algin a standard say "Customized" or "Hand spliced" for this particular type of imported shaft and so does to denote it in the limited space of the badge.

The main issue should be customers' ***expectation*** of so called "handmade' cues from reputable cue makers that they should be entirely or at least the "major" craftsmanship including the shaft selection and planning are done by the cue maker himself which customers would then 'consider' it worths the money paid for. Therefore, as long as customers could be acknowledged with the fact, it's fair to them to determine to go or not.

[Dave Walton]

Personally I agree with Crispian posting this thread, as I believe customers should know what they're getting. If I ordered a cue from a maker who claims to make a cue himself in the UK then found out the shaft was pre tapered whether with splices added or not and imported from outside the UK I would not be very happy, UK cues are expensive to make because of labour costs, if the maker isn't putting in the work but still charging the same labour you're being ripped off! Jason has stated he's used 8 sample cues, so if he's sold them at the same £280 he charges for his cues which he's made from scratch himself(emphasise IF) the customer would have been charged for UK labour that never took place. I'm in no way trying to have a go at Jason merely using some of what he said and adding possibilities to that to make a point.
Its the deception of cues being completely hand made in the UK and hence being charged for UK labour that is fraud! Whether the Thai cues are just as good quality or better is irrelevant. Some people will always pay over the odds for a badge and not care who made a cue or if its actually any good as long as its got a prestige badge on it!