handmade ??? probably not !!!

[crispian jones]

ADR - you are 100% right i do undersell the work involved with the thai cues,? we have had this conversation many times, but what choice do i have ? you know as well as i know that my honesty will get me knowhere in this trade !

as for blank shafts being bought overseas by cuemaker- this is not the topic im trying to disscuss, however
there is nothing wrong in this in my eyes ! i know a few guys who use preturned shafts, they are massivly oversized, and the skill involved in getting a pre turned shaft straight and down to size is a skill in it self, ive cosen to work from boards simply because i believe it is easier when time is no issue ! you plain down squares over time allowing for the stress of the wood to find its natural path, makes sence i geuss when nobody wants a bent cue !
but saying that if i had a contact that would supply me with ultimate ash (which is what 90% of customers ask for) i wouldnt hessitate to buy over-sized blanks !

[Dave Walton]

I know its not the shafts your gripe is with Crispian, I'm just saying that it would bother me and to me is still a rip off if the maker claims to have fully made the cue in the UK. For your point though I do up cues as a hobby, so I could get a contact from you buy some Thai cues, finish them and claim to be a cuemaker (which I'm definitely not lol) making more profit without any of the skills real cuemakers have to acquire or the outlay on tools and materials. So aye I 100% agree the makers doing that are in the wrong and should be exposed for it. In some cases it could well be a legal matter on the basis of fraud

[mythman69]

I was reading about the difficulties of labelling 'free range' eggs in Australia. What does 'free range' mean? Consumers expect chickens running around a farm but the reality is that many producers use the label when the reality is that they are kept in large sheds in huge numbers. Farmers that compete for consumer choice face the problem that the label is not a good reflection of the actual differences in methods of keeping the chickens. One solution suggested is for true free range eggs to be certified as such by an egg producing industry group. Only eggs laid under strict conditions would be able to be labelled as 'free range'.

Perhaps UK hand made cue makers could join together to introduce a second badge on their fully hand made cues that would signify genuine UK hand made. Only cues made under strict conditions would be able to be badged as 'genuine UK hand made'.

What do people think about this idea?

[crankie]

Crispian, if it is so easy to tell a thai cue as you seem to think, why not put up the pictures... ?

[Stevie]

I agree stevie but Crispian will need to charge £600 a cue to make one totally from scratch that will be no better than the customised ones. In the end the market will dictate what happens, as long as we are Still playing snooker I will be happy!

Yeah ADR I was reffering to the Thai cues, surely now potential customers of the "other" cue makers are now more likely to go and purchase a cue from the likes of Crispian which is sold as customised/altered or whatever rather than go and buy one from where the build of the cue is an unknown (or unrevealed!!!)......

[Neil Taperell]

Well something needs to change in this market because IMO I think a minimum 8 month wait is ridiculous. Top cue makers can't be that inundated with orders to be so far behind.

Would I like a Glover, White, Stamford etc? Yes, but not with that wait. Would I care the shaft of my new cue originated in Thailand? No - It would be a quality shaft. As long as my splicing, weight, length etc requirements were met I would gladly pay the premium for the badge. If you could turn it around in under a month!

As far as I'm concerned someone could make a killing. Improve your customer relations because quite frankly its shocking from most of the makers and concentrate on being able to deliver quality cues in a more reasonable time frame and I'm sure the orders would roll in.

It's being inundated with people changing orders that cause delay . You have people who change silly things when a cue is nearly finished . Take 1mm off the butt etc. So the cue maker has to go back and adjust the cue . All takes time .

A top quality cue maker would be able to make 20 handmade cues per month [ i think this is about right ] , depending on have many splices were involved .

I assume someone like Trevor White would get more orders per month than he makes cues . Hence the long waiting time .

Also , they can't employ some one to manage all e mails etc as this would further increase the cost of each cue .

For example , Crispian made a cue and had to deal with over 40 e mails from the buyer !!! This obviously slows up the process of cue making and causes a backlog .

At least the buyer can now make a decision about which route to go down when buying a cue . Everything is in the open and it is all down to personal preference at the end of the day .

[mythman69]

It's being inundated with people changing orders that cause delay . You have people who change silly things when a cue is nearly finished . Take 1mm off the butt etc. So the cue maker has to go back and adjust the cue . All takes time.

Maybe all orders should be final or the buyer is charged extra for changes. Buyers should make up their mind prior to ordering!

[ADR147]

Yeah ADR I was reffering to the Thai cues, surely now potential customers of the "other" cue makers are now more likely to go and purchase a cue from the likes of Crispian which is sold as customised/altered or whatever rather than go and buy one from where the build of the cue is an unknown (or unrevealed!!!)......

I am not so sure, some people are very anti anything foreign! Another thought is where would you draw the line, are you allowed to buy in veneers for example or must you make and dye them yourself? What about using UK only woods? The example mythman made with the eggs is a good one, I must confess I tend to buy the most expensive eggs and assume they are the best which is a dangerous game!

[paddybhoy30]

I don't mind cuemakers (the ones who use thai shafts)making a decent profit, but some i think can be just plain greedy.

[ADR147]

ADR - you are 100% right i do undersell the work involved with the thai cues,? we have had this conversation many times, but what choice do i have ? you know as well as i know that my honesty will get me knowhere in this trade !

as for blank shafts being bought overseas by cuemaker- this is not the topic im trying to disscuss, however
there is nothing wrong in this in my eyes ! i know a few guys who use preturned shafts, they are massivly oversized, and the skill involved in getting a pre turned shaft straight and down to size is a skill in it self, ive cosen to work from boards simply because i believe it is easier when time is no issue ! you plain down squares over time allowing for the stress of the wood to find its natural path, makes sence i geuss when nobody wants a bent cue !
but saying that if i had a contact that would supply me with ultimate ash (which is what 90% of customers ask for) i wouldnt hessitate to buy over-sized blanks !

Planing shafts down by hand is mental in this day and age, you do not go to work in a horse and cart! Also it Does not mean the cue won't bend etc wood will do as it pleases! There is just no need for doing it and I know for a fact almost nobody makes cues this way, not because they can't but because it is a waste of time and money that has no impact on the final result.

[crispian jones]

Planing shafts down by hand is mental in this day and age, you do not go to work in a horse and cart! Also it Does not mean the cue won't bend etc wood will do as it pleases! There is just no need for doing it and I know for a fact almost nobody makes cues this way, not because they can't but because it is a waste of time and money that has no impact on the final result.

i acctualy agree to what your saying andrew, but this thread was not started to disscuss whether people use preturned or squre shafts, or whether a lathe is used or not, or any tools to that mater ? it is simply about rebadging the cues in the way that is exepted ! i am not suggesting people stop making cues either, just the badge issue !

i think that this is all we should be disscussing here !

[JimB]

Planing shafts down by hand is mental in this day and age, you do not go to work in a horse and cart! Also it Does not mean the cue won't bend etc wood will do as it pleases! There is just no need for doing it and I know for a fact almost nobody makes cues this way, not because they can't but because it is a waste of time and money that has no impact on the final result.

I do (i must be one of the almost) ... it's the part I enjoy, I use 3 planes Nos. 6/5/4, i find it relaxing, but you're right, I don't go to work via horse & cart

[DeanH]

I do (i must be one of the almost) ... it's the part I enjoy, I use 3 planes Nos. 6/5/4, i find it relaxing, but you're right, I don't go to work via horse & cart

Penny-Farthing?

[Neil Taperell]

Thai Rickshaw

[JimB]

... altho', now that I think about it I travel via 'shank's mare'













or walking to save confusion!