handmade ??? probably not !!!

[JasonOwen]

most of the things that are being talked about here now are a little of topic, as it is clear too see you guys all have different opinions on what you would rather, a sqare shaft, a preturned shaft, ash for amerrica, ash from thailand ect, what you guys dont realise is that the cuemakers all have different opinions too! so you are only going to get different answers to these questions ?
ash can be found here in the uk, but as alredy pointed out, is a very labourus job to do, as for oversized shafts getting sourced from thailand, is there any cuemaker that would say no to 100 ultimate standard shafts ? i doubt it very much ?

we have the option here to disscuss a subject that i feel is something that is simply wrong, and a little more wrong than how a guy sources ash, so please keep it on track here

Some of these customised cues look very very good and at a fraction of the cost .

Crispians customised cues are within £30/£40 cost of my cues.

You know what, I feel I've been very honest here, I'm the only cue maker ever to discuss how I work and where I source my materials.
I'm the only cue maker ever to have listed a day by day blog of how I started and learnt the trade.
I'm one of very few cue makers who has let people into my workshop.
My prices are below the average and the feedback I have received is above the average.

I've spoken with Crispian at lengths over all this and agree totally.

Please go concentrate on the guys who are not being honest, ask the other makers for a look round their workshops and for details of how they work.

[crispian jones]

I would have to say no to those 100 "ultimate shafts" because they are made by someone else.

the problem is, two pages back a guy states that to wait 8 months for a "handmade" cue is ridiculas, now if i wanted 100 really good shafts then i would need at least 8 months to plane down possibly 1,000 squares of timber !

[crispian jones]

Crispians customised cues are within £30/£40 cost of my cues.

You know what, I feel I've been very honest here, I'm the only cue maker ever to discuss how I work and where I source my materials.
I'm the only cue maker ever to have listed a day by day blog of how I started and learnt the trade.
I'm one of very few cue makers who has let people into my workshop.
My prices are below the average and the feedback I have received is above the average.

I've spoken with Crispian at lengths over all this and agree totally.

Please go concentrate on the guys who are not being honest, ask the other makers for a look round their workshops and for details of how they work.

To be fair to jason, he has a point here, he has shown a lot of courage to come here and be as honest as he has, i dont feel it would be right to keep talking about him while others are still doing the same thing, it is clear to see that the mast majority of jasons cues are handmade, and credit where its due there !

[EnterTheDragon]

Maybe i just don't understand the volume of cues that you are selling if you need that much premium shafts.

[Dave Walton]

Yeah ADR I was reffering to the Thai cues, surely now potential customers of the "other" cue makers are now more likely to go and purchase a cue from the likes of Crispian which is sold as customised/altered or whatever rather than go and buy one from where the build of the cue is an unknown (or unrevealed!!!)......

I am not so sure, some people are very anti anything foreign! Another thought is where would you draw the line, are you allowed to buy in veneers for example or must you make and dye them yourself? What about using UK only woods? The example mythman made with the eggs is a good one, I must confess I tend to buy the most expensive eggs and assume they are the best which is a dangerous game!

Wouldn't go as far to say that veneers should be dyed by a cue maker just as I wouldn't expect them to cut down a tree, kiln dry the wood or machine their own ferrules and joints from a solid piece of brass or kill a cow, produce their own leather and turn that leather into tips lol. I would expect from a high end cue that the cue maker had at least tapered and turned the shaft himself or at least that cue company/team had done it when they imply or some actually state that, that's what they do. I don't actually care where a cue is made or who made it aslong as it plays well and is priced right, what bothers me is the deception and being overcharged. I think you could have badges that say 'custom made' for imported cues and have them at a lower price to suit the costs and then 'handmade by' for cues made from scratch by that maker without the shortcuts in labour and cost

[archalf1471]

handmade ??? probably not !!!

crispian is correct. I have to hold my hands up and say having had a brief conversation with a fellow member last evening I now understand Crispians motives more. This does not mean I agree with the original post without actually naming those whom the post was intended, but I am man enough to admit some of the content of my posts aimed at crispian were out of order and to Crispian in an open forum I apologise unreservedly. But I am afraid you're still a crap speller!!!!

[Dave Walton]

One thing bothers me in this thread..
Jason said he used blanks from Thailand because they were "superior quality ash"
Does this mean that there is no quality ash in the UK?
I personally think that sourcing wood is part of the cue making process.

So do I, however its part of what makes cues so expensive azure there is a lot of waste. So buying blanks already tapered with good grain should cut down on cost and waiting times, which is great for customers, unfortunately makers are cutting corners which as I've said should really be a good thing but keeping the prices the same instead of reflecting the savings in time and money into their prices, in other words being greedy to make more profit.

[crispian jones]

crispian is correct. I have to hold my hands up and say having had a brief conversation with a fellow member last evening I now understand Crispians motives more. This does not mean I agree with the original post without actually naming those whom the post was intended, but I am man enough to admit some of the content of my posts aimed at crispian were out of order and to Crispian in an open forum I apologise unreservedly. But I am afraid you're still a crap speller!!!!

but my math is good

[Dave Walton]

Fair play Jason, I don't agree with you selling cues you didn't make as your own but at least you've got the balls to admit you did it, and aren't hiding anything

[archalf1471]

handmade ??? probably not !!!

in fairness unless there is a legal interpretation of what "handmade" actually means then its all opinion and completely irrelevant and as has been said earlier we have gone far off the original topic anyway

[EnterTheDragon]

in fairness unless there is a legal interpretation of what "handmade" actually means then its all opinion and completely irrelevant and as has been said earlier we have gone far off the original topic anyway

The topic says "handmade"?

[Maxsys]

No legal definition as far as i am aware, there is however government guidance on the use of the term "Hand Made". As with anything like this it is open to interpretation.

A product endorsed as being “hand-made” should be significantly made by hand rather than just one element of the process being carried out in that way. Terms such as “hand assembled”, “hand carved”, or “hand decorated / finished” may be appropriate alternatives. If “hand crafted” is used then it should be clear as to which part of the process this refers to if it is not entirely produced by hand. It would not however be against public expectation for a “hand-made” product to be produced within an industrial setting.

Definition from the Oxford English Dictionary

adjective

made by hand, not by machine, and typically therefore of superior quality:his expensive handmade leather shoes

[fred.england]

I personally applaud Jason for his honesty and it would not stop me buying a cue from Jason, Crispian, Mike Wooldridge or Joe Bloggs for that matter. What I think is important is the honesty of all cue makers in the UK. If a badge says "handmade" and I am willing to spend my hard earned cash for it, I would expect the cue to be exactly that. If the shaft (blank square or even tapered oversize to be finished by maker) was sourced from Thailand, Indonesia or even the moon, as long as the maker finishes the cue to the required standard, in my opinion the cue was "handmade" by the maker. To buy fully made cues from abroad and just re-badge as handmade is fraud full stop and I for one would be seeking legal advice if I had the slightest doubt over its integrity. I firmly believe that my own cue WAS handmade from start to finish. I've no idea where the wood was sourced for the shaft, butt or splices but my makers word is good enough for me. Incidentally, I play with a 10 year old MW. Crispians honesty may in the short term lead to a few lost orders but his honesty in the post is to be applauded. I just hope that other cue "makers" around the UK read this thread. Hats off to Crispian and Jason Owen.

[Dave Walton]

I personally applaud Jason for his honesty and it would not stop me buying a cue from Jason, Crispian, Mike Wooldridge or Joe Bloggs for that matter. What I think is important is the honesty of all cue makers in the UK. If a badge says "handmade" and I am willing to spend my hard earned cash for it, I would expect the cue to be exactly that. If the shaft (blank square or even tapered oversize to be finished by maker) was sourced from Thailand, Indonesia or even the moon, as long as the maker finishes the cue to the required standard, in my opinion the cue was "handmade" by the maker. To buy fully made cues from abroad and just re-badge as handmade is fraud full stop and I for one would be seeking legal advice if I had the slightest doubt over its integrity. I firmly believe that my own cue WAS handmade from start to finish. I've no idea where the wood was sourced for the shaft, butt or splices but my makers word is good enough for me. Incidentally, I play with a 10 year old MW. Crispians honesty may in the short term lead to a few lost orders but his honesty in the post is to be applauded. I just hope that other cue "makers" around the UK read this thread. Hats off to Crispian and Jason Owen.

just adding a badge on an already spliced made up cue is pretty much what some of these makers are allegedly doing

[EnterTheDragon]

i was told from day 1 that honesty would get me knowhere, something i now understand, and this is what has brought about this thread

If it was a fellow cuemaker that said that, i would be a little bit concerned.