handmade ??? probably not !!!

[Neil Taperell]

Snookileaks

[SouthPaw]

Snookileaks

i am in a very difficult position here, something that is of my own making i admit, so how about this ? you lot vote for one guy, on my side or not i dont care, to sit here on this forum possibly this evening and we have a debate ? it is probably best that is someone that i dont know and that is not a cumaker ?

i will answer every question you throw my way with 100% honesty, but during this debate i would want my own questions answered too at some stage ?

Well Neil could be the man if he's not out later..?

[crispian jones]

No im not snooker police, im just a guy who has started a **** stir, one that has obviously cought the attention of everyone here whether for good or bad reasons ? now ive suddenly realized how big the whole issue is, i simply want a fair chance of my bussiness and anyone else who decides to try following this difficult path an honest chance to succed !!!

the implications that follow this thread are massive with people now sending me messages threatening leagal action against cuemakers, something that is not necesary here at all.

i sugest that people badge a cue apropriatly, this is not a big deal, the true craftsmen will overcome this, the learners like myself will just have to reduce there prices !

am i asking a lot ? no i dont think so ! i firmly belive that the uk cue industry is corupted by a few bad apples, and the small minority of these are geting to greedy, if you can not see this then my time and efforts are truly waisted here...

i have put my whole reputation at stake here and will possibly need to look for another source of income because like it or not my credibilaty will be affected, whether im gelous, bitter, twisted, or whatever, when in fact i am just really really frustrated !!!!!

i am an honest guy whos principles are quite clearly put on the line here, ive taken drugs, ive drunk alcohol and passed out, im divorced after having a few affairs, i have 4 kids and a few criminal records, so no im not the most sencible person going, but what i dont do on a daily basis is put handmade badges in my thai cues, i work like a mule day in day out and for that i am trying to open an avenue that i can simply compeete with others.

[robertmac]

Several months ago I purchased a cue from Andy Travis and I am
very happy with it and would purchase another cue from him.

When he says it is handmade that means to me that he has used
the raw materials supplied to him, the ash and ebony and ferrule,
and he provided all the labour to produce my cue. The wood used
came to him in raw form and hadnt been 'worked on' by someone
else. If he uses some power tools such as an electric sander etc
is ok with me as he is the cue maker.

After all the badge says made by Andy Travis and that is what I am
spending my money on. If I had wanted a cue that was partially
worked on by someone else I would have possibly chosen another
cue maker.

I understand that some cue makers may chose to outsource some
of the work that goes into making their cues but they should state
that on their website or disclose that to the customer before an
order is accepted.

To not disclose that is very unethical in my opinion.

[ken147]

The accused unethical cue makers have had a few days to digest the information from forum members. I have a feeling that they will not defend themselves and explain the situation, but hide behind a curtain of shame and guilt. I work hard for a living and I would definately need to know what exactly I'm purchasing. Trevor have you got my email for a HANDMADE cue???

[fred.england]

Several months ago I purchased a cue from Andy Travis and I am
very happy with it and would purchase another cue from him.

When he says it is handmade that means to me that he has used
the raw materials supplied to him, the ash and ebony and ferrule,
and he provided all the labour to produce my cue. The wood used
came to him in raw form and hadnt been 'worked on' by someone
else. If he uses some power tools such as an electric sander etc
is ok with me as he is the cue maker.

After all the badge says made by Andy Travis and that is what I am
spending my money on. If I had wanted a cue that was partially
worked on by someone else I would have possibly chosen another
cue maker.

I understand that some cue makers may chose to outsource some
of the work that goes into making their cues but they should state
that on their website or disclose that to the customer before an
order is accepted.

To not disclose that is very unethical in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly. I also own an Andy Travis, bought from a member on here, second hand.

Do I
A.....seek legal advice against Andy Travis for fraudulent trading
B.....seek legal advice against the seller for passing off a "handmade Andy Travis" cue as exactly that.

I believe the seller had no idea of the origins of the cue so his integrity is 100% intact. The cue was sold to me "as seen" and I must admit, my son really likes it so point B is out of the question. As for point A, hmmmmm not sure what to do.

I'm all for an honest days graft for an honest days pay but I somehow feel a bit duped owning a Travis that was allegedly made to completion in Thailand.....

Just a thought though. I've just looked at the badge and it actually says

Handmade
Travis
Sheffield

Now I'm no lawyer but it does not say handmade "BY" Travis so by my reckoning, Andy does not claim to make the cue. I'm unsure what other badges say on his cues but it would be interesting to find out.

[archalf1471]

handmade ??? probably not !!!

neil in answer to your question I was being sarcastic and bringing a little humour in a pedantic way to a thread which was going nowhere.

[EnterTheDragon]

it has taken me over 25 years of hard work and my early cues i used to sell for peanuts as i was learning the trade. i started off doing repairs and im a firm believer in learning this way and as the years went by i got better so i used to increase the price of the cues to reflect not only the amount of work that goes into a handmade cue but how happy i am with each cue. it is only in the last 3 years i feel i have got to a point that i am happy with them as i always strive for perfection which is not easy with wood and can be frustrating

so come on you l

Well said. And as a "hobbyist" cue maker i know the frustration part very well.. I couldn't do this for a living.

[jrc750]

This thread sometimes goes way off topic lol
Am i correct in thinking that the "big 2" who are accused of buying virtually finished Thai made cues then re-badging them as their own are Mike Wooldridge and Robert Osbourne ???

[Byrom]

yeah I thought that.

[EnterTheDragon]

I just can't get it why making cues has to be so shady business?

[jrc750]

I just can't get it why making cues has to be so shady business?

To make lots of money for very little effort, simple really

[jrc750]

yeah I thought that.

And if so does this only apply to Mike's legend plain ebony cues (which sell for £450 !!! gulp) ??
Or does it also apply to the VCM cues which cost a bomb !!

[EnterTheDragon]

To make lots of money for very little effort, simple really

Ok. Forget the "business" part of it.

[crispian jones]

I agree wholeheartedly. I also own an Andy Travis, bought from a member on here, second hand.

Do I
A.....seek legal advice against Andy Travis for fraudulent trading
B.....seek legal advice against the seller for passing off a "handmade Andy Travis" cue as exactly that.

I believe the seller had no idea of the origins of the cue so his integrity is 100% intact. The cue was sold to me "as seen" and I must admit, my son really likes it so point B is out of the question. As for point A, hmmmmm not sure what to do.

I'm all for an honest days graft for an honest days pay but I somehow feel a bit duped owning a Travis that was allegedly made to completion in Thailand.....

Just a thought though. I've just looked at the badge and it actually says

Handmade
Travis
Sheffield

Now I'm no lawyer but it does not say handmade "BY" Travis so by my reckoning, Andy does not claim to make the cue. I'm unsure what other badges say on his cues but it would be interesting to find out.

Please let me point out that i am refering to just 1 cue that has been on this forum recently ! i am in no way sugesting every cue !