handmade ??? probably not !!!

[luke-h]

The problem is some haven't said one way or another where they were 'handmade' the badges give an impression which is open to interpretation by the individual

but when they have pictures inferring that they are surely the law would be on the side of the consumer

[trevs1]

Just want to to clarify something that there seems to be some confusion over..

UK law is VERY clear on whether you are able to label a product in a way which can be misleading. Trading standards take that sort of thing extremely seriously.

Product labelling may be variable in how tight it has to be, but it's ferociously stringent when it comes to food stuffs, perishable products precious metals and many other every day things. So, while a cue might not be a particularly "every day product" it's still subject to the same conditions as other products.

If it was to be labelled in a way which suggests it is produced somewhere it was not, by someone who did not, then Trading standards would no doubt be interested.

[RogiBear]

I can safely say that if you put your own name on the badge that is a fraud.

but when they have pictures inferring that they are surely the law would be on the side of the consumer

I agree with both of you, it is morally wrong and everything does insinuate that the cue is made by that person. However unless they explicitly say that they have made it or the badge has made 'BY' I don't think in the eyes of the law it is illegal.

[Maxsys]

See post 272 of this thread, no legal definition of handmade, i don't think anybody would have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view on that alone, there would need to be other contributing factors, like emails, letters or website where the maker has claimed something that is not true.

[crispian jones]

Just want to to clarify something that there seems to be some confusion over..

UK law is VERY clear on whether you are able to label a product in a way which can be misleading. Trading standards take that sort of thing extremely seriously.

Product labelling may be variable in how tight it has to be, but it's ferociously stringent when it comes to food stuffs, perishable products precious metals and many other every day things. So, while a cue might not be a particularly "every day product" it's still subject to the same conditions as other products.

If it was to be labelled in a way which suggests it is produced somewhere it was not, by someone who did not, then Trading standards would no doubt be interested.

i was on the phone this morning to trading standards asking this very question trevor, what they told me was that if any competitor was in my own county they would investigate, but as there are none it would be an issue for the courts, ie mr police man my cues dodgie

[crispian jones]

Ahh come on mate, grow a pair !!
Thought you had something more than "a suspicion"

if it was that easy dont you think this would have been exposed years ago, well before my time !!!
the reason it is easy now is that there are more of us honest guys playing around with thai cues, so it is a lot easier to see them and judge them, that and the fact that a few guys who have appered in the past few years thinking money money money, ruthlessly flashing cues off with barley a finish on them, and absolutly no attempt to hide what they are !
i can honestly say that a guy who has 20yrs plus experience would never leave a trail as easily exposed

[RogiBear]

i was on the phone this morning to trading standards asking this very question trevor, what they told me was that if any competitor was in my own county they would investigate, but as there are none it would be an issue for the courts, ie mr police man my cues dodgie

The competitor is the cue maker isn't it? So they are located in the UK

[crispian jones]

frustration between customers is one side but frustration between cuemakers is another (yay a new thread)

how do you think a genuine cuemaker feels when people come along with a few cues, start selling them at say £200 then within 2 years are selling them for near £400 ! and as said not even trying to hide the fact they did not make it ?
then a few coments appear on forums such as this like "he is the new john parris" ect, it is based on nothing, reputations are something that are biult over many years, and that is what i aim to do, and along the way i hope to keep all my dignaty in doing this !

[luke-h]

The competitor is the cue maker isn't it? So they are located in the UK

exactly as the importer of the cue is doing nothing wrong. its the seller, i think if enough people stand together then im sure collectively a voice would be heard

[golferson123]

I agree wholeheartedly. I also own an Andy Travis, bought from a member on here, second hand.

Do I
A.....seek legal advice against Andy Travis for fraudulent trading
B.....seek legal advice against the seller for passing off a "handmade Andy Travis" cue as exactly that.

I believe the seller had no idea of the origins of the cue so his integrity is 100% intact. The cue was sold to me "as seen" and I must admit, my son really likes it so point B is out of the question. As for point A, hmmmmm not sure what to do.

I'm all for an honest days graft for an honest days pay but I somehow feel a bit duped owning a Travis that was allegedly made to completion in Thailand.....

Just a thought though. I've just looked at the badge and it actually says

Handmade
Travis
Sheffield

Now I'm no lawyer but it does not say handmade "BY" Travis so by my reckoning, Andy does not claim to make the cue. I'm unsure what other badges say on his cues but it would be interesting to find out.

fred. i feel i must defend andy. i had andy make me a cue ages ago and due to my dislike of american ash i sourced my own doner cue which he remade to my specs,now believe me this takes some skill as there is little margin for error as there is no more wood to remove to tidy splices up etc.andy made a superb job.as did jim evans who did the same thing much later.both cues look superb but i dont play with them because i am looking for the elusive hit?.back in the early 80s i was a partner in a cue making buisness and made thousands of cues many for export,the tables have since turned.making a cue by hand was a non starter because nobody would pay the premium req.we started by buying timber from boddys in plank form sizing them then grading them,then turned them then spliced them,no fancy butts in them days!.we then found a cue maker in coventry who would supply us with ready made cues in the raw turned and spliced.they were 40 pound each.we had to buy 30 a time and of the 30 possibley 5 were fit to make top end cues of the rest we could only hope to get our money back as rack cues.at no point did i think we were defrauding anyone as we did the leg work of siffting the rubbish out and bearing the cost.now things are different because of the prices involved!.i once went to the elephant and castle when the waiting time was 6weeks and the cost was 600pounds apiece! they had hundreds of the buggers in the back! thus creating demand.and i suspect they bought them from the same place as us.crispian must know this practice has been going on for decades the only differance is they are piggybacking on true handmade cues which probabily dont hit any better but take vast amounts of skill.take heart that your skill is much admired but your bank account might not be.

[EnterTheDragon]

And to add to the issue of "handmade", i would have to say that a cue is handmade when pieces of timber aren't thrown to a robot that makes and finishes a cue.

[Byrom]

lot of faffing about on here. If they are members of this forum why not lets just ask them first.

[crispian jones]

fred. i feel i must defend andy. i had andy make me a cue ages ago and due to my dislike of american ash i sourced my own doner cue which he remade to my specs,now believe me this takes some skill as there is little margin for error as there is no more wood to remove to tidy splices up etc.andy made a superb job.as did jim evans who did the same thing much later.both cues look superb but i dont play with them because i am looking for the elusive hit?.back in the early 80s i was a partner in a cue making buisness and made thousands of cues many for export,the tables have since turned.making a cue by hand was a non starter because nobody would pay the premium req.we started by buying timber from boddys in plank form sizing them then grading them,then turned them then spliced them,no fancy butts in them days!.we then found a cue maker in coventry who would supply us with ready made cues in the raw turned and spliced.they were 40 pound each.we had to buy 30 a time and of the 30 possibley 5 were fit to make top end cues of the rest we could only hope to get our money back as rack cues.at no point did i think we were defrauding anyone as we did the leg work of siffting the rubbish out and bearing the cost.now things are different because of the prices involved!.i once went to the elephant and castle when the waiting time was 6weeks and the cost was 600pounds apiece! they had hundreds of the buggers in the back! thus creating demand.and i suspect they bought them from the same place as us.crispian must know this practice has been going on for decades the only differance is they are piggybacking on true handmade cues which probabily dont hit any better but take vast amounts of skill.take heart that your skill is much admired but your bank account might not be.

good post

[luke-h]

i already did.....

[Byrom]

and what did they say?