handmade ??? probably not !!!

[throtts]

It seems to be lots of cues have been overpriced prior to this thread, so this is nothing more than the market correcting itself.

This was crisp intention, the correct price for Custom made cues and Handmade cues. If all cue makers stick to this then it's a fair playground for all of them. The customer then can purely go by quality. Now, that's fair..

[choice]

Well done to you Jason Owen, for being honest. I personally think you will sell more cues now......

I replied to the thread because i wanted to be honest.

Ive spoken to Crispian every day, understood his problems and have agreed to rename my cues Custom made instead of hand made, purely so I dont have to endure all this next time it pops up.

I have done more than most, in fact more than all and now been told its suicide (!!)

Ive tried to help Crispian, then for whatever reason I get dragged into it again.
Please move on....

[archalf1471]

handmade ??? probably not !!!

my spot on thank you post refers to post @ 8:31.

[throtts]

my spot on thank you post refers to post @ 8:31.

I did wonder. This is a Mastermind thread..

[Maxsys]

Whilst I agree with almost everything you have said before, I can't go with this one Cris. If you have effectively sold as a wholesaler to ADR, who then is the retailer, he is free to price & market the cues as he sees fit. If you don't like it, you can either not sell as a wholesaler or have the retail price written in to the agreement. The perception of whether ADR's selling price is too high is completely irrelevant.

You may be able to put a recommend retail price into an agreement but it certainly cannot be binding, that is called price fixing and is illegal. Wholesaler sells in bulk, retailer decides market value if wholesaler does not like it then he needs to become the retailer. Simples. :wink:

[crispian jones]

im just trying to point out that there is a ladder to climb if you want to be classing yourself as a big guy in the uk !

we all seem to talk about trevor and mike and coutts ect, probably as they are forum members i geuss ? but there are also many others like robin cook,john parris, stamford, tony glover ect... all who have been where i am, frustraited at the constant battle to source and buy wood, order joints, ferrules, tips ect. (there are many many other products needed too)
and my main point being, what ive tried getting out from the begining is that this ladder can be avoided nowerdays, the whole point of this thread was to prove that fact !

ive pointed out that there are thai splicers on the forum, and to some extent i feel ive managed to prove that point, but this needs to be adressed before the numbers increased, which im pretty sure they will (or would have)

it has been pointed out before that with the power of forums ect, people can exploit things easily, it only takes a few guys to coment on a few cues and everyone is talking about them.

i however feel that the credit needs to be earned, my opinions are stuborn i agree and the way ive gone about the whole thread has been back and forth constantly throughout (something i feel has affected archalf most) but what you dont realize is now difficult this all is !

now i dont think for one minute that i will change much, i never did, but what i will say is that this thread has been very good in one respect, that being that people who have dabbled with thai cues will either stop, badge them a little clearer or carry on regaurdless, but the last option people know that the can will be reopened time and time again !

me personaly i would rather get on with honest work and not worry about the can of worms !

please remember that through all this people will always have different opinions and for that i geuss this is just mine

[mrbluejay]

This was crisp intention, the correct price for Custom made cues and Handmade cues. If all cue makers stick to this then it's a fair playground for all of them. The customer then can purely go by quality. Now, that's fair..

Absolutely fair and right.

[crispian jones]

This was crisp intention, the correct price for Custom made cues and Handmade cues. If all cue makers stick to this then it's a fair playground for all of them. The customer then can purely go by quality. Now, that's fair..

the best reply in a week mate

[mrbluejay]

You may be able to put a recommend retail price into an agreement but it certainly cannot be binding, that is called price fixing and is illegal. Wholesaler sells in bulk, retailer decides market value if wholesaler does not like it then he needs to become the retailer. Simples. :wink:

You can ensure that all retailers price the same in some circumstances, happens all the time when a new in demand product is launched - technology for example.

[SteveDay]

i am also a little dissapointed with the fact that raymo has refused to disscuss his position here i dont think that will change though unfortunatly ? so we probably wont get anywhere with that one

When I was asking for a cue to be made, I was told by Raymo that he couldn't do custom work even though he said he fully handmade his cues, which made no sense because if he was making from scratch then he could just as well have made one with the extra length like I wanted.

Who is supplying the Thai cues? Presumably they aren't all buying in bulk direct from Thailand, so is it the same UK supplier that's supplying them all with Thai cues in order that they can re-badge them?

[Exile]

Ok here's my contribution as a "new" cue maker...

I think that selling something as your own that is not 100% made by you is dishonest if you claim it to be any different. All my cues are 100% mine (subject to what you read in the next couple of sentances LOL). I travel from timber yard to timber yard to select the best woods I can find. I've never, nor intend to ever buy pre-made factory blanks regardless of where they come from. There are 2 components of my cues that I don't make myself. The joints are bought in because I simply don't have the tooling to produce them to the accuracy I'd accept on a reoccurring basis. When I started I made every joint myself but it was taking me forever on my crappy old lathe that I picked up for £100. The other component is my badge. I get a local sign maker to make these for me because he has a laser engraver and I don't lol :-)

On the other hand I have worked in product based companies where I totally understand brands and how hard they are to build up. Nothing wrong with branding but (AND HERE IS WHERE I TOTALY AGREE WITH CHRIS) it should be done ethically and not misleading in anyway to the guy who works all week and chooses to part with his hard earned money in a new cue.

And absolutely top respect given to Jason for how open he has been in a public forum.

[SteveDay]

I could set up a cue making business, buy in the finished off Thai cues that are honestly being sold as finished off Thai cues, stick my own badge on and charge a premium price like the dishonest cue makers and not even need a workshop. Give someone a couple of quid to stick the badge on. Not saying it's Thai, not saying it had work done by someone else, not putting my own badge on. The completely non-handmade by me cue, £200+ profit, ta very much!

[choice]

Crispian Jones
Crispian so, is Andrew Ramsey (adr)asked you to put hand made badges on cues,knowing that they were 100% not hand made?
Crispian , have you put any badges on other peoples cues for them and who???

I did a batch of customized cues for adr, clearly badged as customised cues, as i would not badge them any other way, these cues were sold for £375 on ebay, i know that andrew needed to recoup some of his investments , so for that i geuss he had his own value on them, i did however state that i would be putting them on my website for £240 and not to go overboard with what he asks for them, or it will look bad on him when my new website came online, but they went on there anyway, this put me in such a difficult position as these cues were listed as handmade cues, to which people even wanted these cues returned to me for rebadging with handmade badges, again the answer for that was no !!!! now if i priced my customised cues at £375 i would probably be asking £600 for handmade cues, so bang goes my business !

i feel that andrew has far to much influence in this area, and something that has clearly left me in a very awkward position, do i price high and not have any customers/income or do i price low to avoid making andrew look greedy ?

i am also a little dissapointed with the fact that raymo has refused to disscuss his position here i dont think that will change though unfortunatly ? so we probably wont get anywhere with that one

[choice]

Steve Day, We will set up together and I'll go halves........L.O.L.

I could set up a cue making business, buy in the finished off Thai cues that are honestly being sold as finished off Thai cues, stick my own badge on and charge a premium price like the dishonest cue makers and not even need a workshop. Give someone a couple of quid to stick the badge on. Not saying it's Thai, not saying it had work done by someone else, not putting my own badge on. The completely non-handmade by me cue, £200+ profit, ta very much!

[Andy Travis]

I have never heard of UK traditional splicing.
When I get a cue enquiry I usually quote around 2-3 weeks which is quick, reason I can do that is because I have already got one or two prepared (1 piece plain ebony butt).
9 out of ten cues have at least 1 front splice added, when I splice the shafts I always put the first splices in line with the chevrons.
When someone wants a plain ebony cue its nearly ready.

I had no idea it was not allowed in the UK