R.i.p

[Dave Walton]

Do they really buy the basic spliced up cue for only £60 ????
That's a lot cheaper than i would imagine
Surely shipping and customs costs that alone ???

Think that's what it said on the other thread, could be totally wrong though. Wey looks like Jason has blocked me on fb, guess he doesn't like the truth lol, not so open an honest afterall. Personally don't believe it was only 8 Thai cues or that it was an error of judgement, rather I believe he got greedy and thought he could get away with it. Oh well, I thought he was a good bloke and wasn't looking to fall out with him, guess sh*t happens

You guys on here beggar belief u really do. You've done nothing but criticise Jason over the past few days questioning the blokes integrity and business practice's and u wonder why he doesn't regard u as a "friend" in cyberspace and blocks you. Jeez. Unbelievable.

His integrity has been tarnished and his business practise is dishonest bordering on fraudulent so there's nothing to question! I like the bloke, so obviously I should have just said "there, there, don't worry you've done nothing wrong" don't think so! If your happy to overlook his wrong doings that's says a lot about your own integrity

"You like the bloke???" I would hate to think what u would have said if you didnt ffs.
and as you don't know me what gives you the right to question my integrity? I've never met you so would never make any snap judgement on your integrity or personal qualities based purely on your opinions that are published on here regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

I didn't question your integrity, read what I said, IF YOUR HAPPY TO OVERLOOK HIS WRONG DOINGS THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOUR OWN INTEGRITY. At no point did I say you were happy to overlook his wrong doings, or say you have no integrity. top and bottom is I do like Jason but don't and won't condone his actions

[arbitrage]

The Pierre Cardin analogy is not a good one. Most people would know he is an Italian fashion designer (Probably assume he was French actually), but the difference is that his clothes would have a label which would denote the country of manufacture - clear and transparent.

Now if I were to buy a cue, which said Scotland on the badge along with Handmade, what am I to assume? Now if such a product did exist and it was in fact made on the other side of the world, I would call that misleading, would you not agree?

that's not the problem of the cuemaker but of the regulatory framework. as long as the cuemaker is compliant with legal standards, there is no issue and within the current framework, the onus is on the consumer to inquire - as regulations do not stipulate that you have to define the manufacturing process or label country of origin / outsourcing component. if you inquire and the cuemaker misleads you then he is at fault. otherwise, there is no 'misleading' only 'marketing'. therefore, don't assume - exercise your right to inquire. as said, unless you can prove there is any wrongdoing in a court of law, your point is moot

[DandyA]

Yes no problem at all with the 1st examples in my eyes, BUT the 2nd example was what the other thread was about i believe, ie a certain cue maker (use that term loosely ) is buying in finished Thai cues and basically just re-badging them and selling them on as his own.
Crispian does this on his "customised" cues and charges a reasonable £240, the so far undisclosed maker is charging £400+ i believe

oh please jrc750, just name them, the suspense is killing me ... you obviously know who the accusations are about ... all you need to do is stick in a few "allegedly", "what the bloke down the pub said" and you can't be sued for libel/slander ...

all that's happened so far with all this innuendo is Andy Travis and Jason Owen have suffered some collateral damage which seems a bit unfair as (although I'm not an expert) they both seem to prices their cues very reasonably ... whether the shafts are sourced from Thailand or in the UK ...

if you won't name them, then perhaps other forum members will help ... jrc750 says that Crispian charges £240 for a cue and the "unnamed one" charges £400+ for (presumably) the same thing ... so who is it?

[jrc750]

pm sent DandyA
It should really come from Crispian tho

[Lazarosc]

Feel like sharing your new found information here Dandy.

[DandyA]

Feel like sharing your new found information here Dandy.

errr, no mate ... I don't think I can - me and jrc750 have just had a private conversation via PM and I think it has to remain that way ... I don't like innuendo, especially where it hurts others by collateral damage such as Andy Travis or Jason Owen or others ...

but I think all I can safely say on a public forum is the allegations, if true, are significant (but not world shattering) and I was personally shocked by them and I haven't even got Obsessive Cue Disorder ... oh, and they don't involve AT or JO, they've just been caught in the crossfire ...

perhaps try sending jrc750 or crispian a PM to see if they'll reply ... I don't know if they will ...

[gnomus]

i see. i have heard that a certain "old name" brand's cues are entirely made in thailand and badged under his name. note that what he is doing is not illegal - it's the same as "pierre cardin" giving his designs to a vietnamese factory to manufacture and then selling it around the world. personally, i wouldn't buy this brand's cues as i don't believe he can control the quality sufficiently if it is 100% outsourced. my original points are 1) the "product descriptions" for cues don't provide the buyer with enough info and therefore it is the onus of the buyer to check for himself/herself (and not make assumptions) and 2) within a legal framework in the UK or otherwise, there is no "fraud" or "deceptive marketing" involved as a lot of people are screaming on this forum - point being you can't prove it in a court of law

Yes, but if you log on to some of these cuemakers sites you will often find a page purporting to show how the cue is made. These might well show pictures of square cue blanks stacked up in a workshop. This gives the very strong (and it would seem erroneous) impression that the square ash blank is what the cuemaker is starting off with.

I don't think the Pierre Cardin site shows pictures of people purporting to be beret-clad Frenchmen working away at a loom (although I must confess that I have not checked).

Interestingly, I note that the "A Cue is Born" page seems to have been removed from Jason's site in the last few days. Maybe someone has already taken a screen-grab of the page, however.

[mrbluejay]

that's not the problem of the cuemaker but of the regulatory framework. as long as the cuemaker is compliant with legal standards, there is no issue and within the current framework, the onus is on the consumer to inquire - as regulations do not stipulate that you have to define the manufacturing process or label country of origin / outsourcing component. if you inquire and the cuemaker misleads you then he is at fault. otherwise, there is no 'misleading' only 'marketing'. therefore, don't assume - exercise your right to inquire. as said, unless you can prove there is any wrongdoing in a court of law, your point is moot

Of course it is the fault of the cuemaker in my example. The deception is intentional.

[gnomus]

Small claims court up to £10,000 now so not so small, but miles away from this topic.

I believe that the service operated by HM Courts & Tribunals Service has changed its name to "Money Claim Online" (a Google search will find the site). The limit has been raised to £100,000 (which should cover most cues - I would hope). The whole process can be done online.

I have had to use the service 2-3 times and it is very straightforward. There is a small fee (which is about the cost of a deposit on a handmade cue), but this can be added to the claim against the person whom you allege mis-sold you the item. (I suspect you would need to offer the seller the opportunity to offer you a refund on a returned item before you used the Court service).

[archalf1471]

Do they really buy the basic spliced up cue for only £60 ????
That's a lot cheaper than i would imagine
Surely shipping and customs costs that alone ???

Think that's what it said on the other thread, could be totally wrong though. Wey looks like Jason has blocked me on fb, guess he doesn't like the truth lol, not so open an honest afterall. Personally don't believe it was only 8 Thai cues or that it was an error of judgement, rather I believe he got greedy and thought he could get away with it. Oh well, I thought he was a good bloke and wasn't looking to fall out with him, guess sh*t happens

You guys on here beggar belief u really do. You've done nothing but criticise Jason over the past few days questioning the blokes integrity and business practice's and u wonder why he doesn't regard u as a "friend" in cyberspace and blocks you. Jeez. Unbelievable.

His integrity has been tarnished and his business practise is dishonest bordering on fraudulent so there's nothing to question! I like the bloke, so obviously I should have just said "there, there, don't worry you've done nothing wrong" don't think so! If your happy to overlook his wrong doings that's says a lot about your own integrity

"You like the bloke???" I would hate to think what u would have said if you didnt ffs.
and as you don't know me what gives you the right to question my integrity? I've never met you so would never make any snap judgement on your integrity or personal qualities based purely on your opinions that are published on here regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

I didn't question your integrity, read what I said, IF YOUR HAPPY TO OVERLOOK HIS WRONG DOINGS THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOUR OWN INTEGRITY. At no point did I say you were happy to overlook his wrong doings, or say you have no integrity. top and bottom is I do like Jason but don't and won't condone his actions

Lol. Oh I'm giggling. You're just making yourself look a complete arse. so Dave u like Jason? And id wager you've never met the bloke or even spoke to him? So u like him based purely on a few lines he's wrote on a website or a forum, umm creepy. prob a bit like I would imagine you like Trevor as well? And that would also be based on the fact he makes great cues and writes some sensible things when he posts on here, and not because you've actually met him in the flesh or have actually purchased a cue from any of the top UK based cuemakers, but I bet you "like" them all don't you.
Or perhaps you've served them both on the drive in whilst discussing the origins of your Cuecraft C7 was it?

[willtyson]

errr, no mate ... I don't think I can - me and jrc750 have just had a private conversation via PM and I think it has to remain that way ... I don't like innuendo, especially where it hurts others by collateral damage such as Andy Travis or Jason Owen or others ...

but I think all I can safely say on a public forum is the allegations, if true, are significant (but not world shattering) and I was personally shocked by them and I haven't even got Obsessive Cue Disorder ... oh, and they don't involve AT or JO, they've just been caught in the crossfire ...

perhaps try sending jrc750 or crispian a PM to see if they'll reply ... I don't know if they will ...

This is a joke. If people are willing to 'expose' the most evil cue makers in the UK that are Andy Travis and Jason Owen who are importing thousands of cues for only pence and charging such extortionately high prices for cues that they've done no work on and have used devious tactics to trick innocent and naive Snooker Forum cue experts, then why not expose the other crooks and swindlers that I'm sure are so sinful and nefarious! Christ almighty, do excuse one's blasphemous comments , but this witch hunt is quite incredibly outrageous and has a certain air of irony to it!

[billabong]

oh please jrc750, just name them, the suspense is killing me ... you obviously know who the accusations are about ... all you need to do is stick in a few "allegedly", "what the bloke down the pub said" and you can't be sued for libel/slander ...

errr, no mate ... I don't think I can - me and jrc750 have just had a private conversation via PM and I think it has to remain that way ... I don't like innuendo, especially where it hurts others by collateral damage such as Andy Travis or Jason Owen or others ...

but I think all I can safely say on a public forum is the allegations, if true, are significant (but not world shattering) and I was personally shocked by them and I haven't even got Obsessive Cue Disorder ... oh, and they don't involve AT or JO, they've just been caught in the crossfire ...

perhaps try sending jrc750 or crispian a PM to see if they'll reply ... I don't know if they will ...

LOL, I could hear the reversing buzzer all the way up here in sunny Scotland Andy.

What hapened to sticking a few "allegedly" bits on the reveal ?

This is getting like the Radiohead video for "just".

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[archalf1471]

Feel like sharing your new found information here Dandy.

errr, no mate ... I don't think I can - me and jrc750 have just had a private conversation via PM and I think it has to remain that way ... I don't like innuendo, especially where it hurts others by collateral damage such as Andy Travis or Jason Owen or others ...

but I think all I can safely say on a public forum is the allegations, if true, are significant (but not world shattering) and I was personally shocked by them and I haven't even got Obsessive Cue Disorder ... oh, and they don't involve AT or JO, they've just been caught in the crossfire ...

perhaps try sending jrc750 or crispian a PM to see if they'll reply ... I don't know if they will ...

Excellent post and very true

[archalf1471]

R.i.p

dandy and jrc are quite right to keep any info they have private as they may wish to.
you only have to look at the way the vultures have attempted to crucify cuemakers and individuals who have offered up some honesty and opinion on here recently. Any info they have is only based on heresay and conversations or info they have garnered from other sources recently anyway rather than hard proof so why would they risk you lot ripping the guys to shreads anyway.

If one of the cuemakers you so clearly love and hang off their every word said it you would listen because that's how this place operates.
You vultures on here need to take a good hard look at yourselves and wonder what damage you've already done to some peoples livelihood already with your misplaced idle gossip. "Oh the dishonesty, oh get a life!" None of you were going to buy a cue of of them anyway so what does it matter, as long as it kept you entertained over the weekend in your shallow cyber world that's all that counts ultimately for your sad sorry existence.

[willtyson]

If one of the cuemakers you so clearly love and hang off their every word said it you would listen because that's how this place operates.
You vultures on here need to take a good hard look at yourselves and wonder what damage you've already done to some peoples livelihood already with your misplaced idle gossip. "Oh the dishonesty, oh get a life!" None of you were going to buy a cue of of them anyway so what does it matter, as long as it kept you entertained over the weekend in your shallow cyber world that's all that counts ultimately for your sad sorry existence.

Spot on...