R.i.p

[laverda]

Do you like the cue Jason sent you?

Indeed I do but that has nothing to do with the situation this thread and the original thread are discussing. The issue is being able to make an informed choice... Something that can only happen if there is transparency. I'm sad to say but the days of just accepting someones word and their marketing hype are now gone and all because a few unscrupulous individuals have brought the entire cue making industry into question.
Mick

[hotpot]

Wonder what Mr P would make of all this .

[willtyson]

Indeed I do but that has nothing to do with the situation this thread and the original thread are discussing. The issue is being able to make an informed choice... Something that can only happen if there is transparency. I'm sad to say but the days of just accepting someones word and their marketing hype are now gone and all because a few unscrupulous individuals have brought the entire cue making industry into question.
Mick

So if you knew that if you were to order that cue from a Thai cue maker knowing that it would be as good as the one you own, and pay them the same price you've paid Jason would you still have bought it?

[eaoin11]

I notice Jason's website now says "Custom made cues by Jason Owen" on the home page,

and the Questions section of the site does cover the shaft origins.

Has this been changed recently, or has it been like this for a while ?

Haven't been on his site a lot recently, and when I did, I tended to just be drooling at the cue pictures.

It's all quite clear on there now anyway. .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree, and can only think he's chosen to say custom made rather than customized because it won't be clear to a lot of people. Customized is the accurate term in my opinion, and has the precedent of being used by Dave Coutts JP CJ and others although in JP's case I think it's where he's just done some work on a customer's non-JP cue.

[mythman69]

ultimately any of these threads that continue in this vain where cuemaker/suppliers integrity is being called into question will be closed down by the site admin, the same as last night's thread was, so I think all the hard work and contributions correct or speculative by all concerned and will leave a lot of potential customers very confused to say the least

archalf1471 - I noticed you are selling your 2 months old Andy Travis cue on ebay UK . . .

[Tred]

tell me something guys. you buy a cue purely to play snooker with, some of you will do it well some of u won't, I have no idea what level you play to and am not bothered. Let's say u pay £300 for said piece of timber regardless of design. Its a wonderful cue its spot on to what you requested. You knock in several large breaks over the course of the next few weeks and have contacted the maker/builder/supplier to say how chuffed you are, best cue ever, feels lovely, great balance, superb finish, best grain you've ever seen, bargain of the cemtury , would even recommend u to the mother in law............

But wait someone you don't know never met haven't really heard of as a cuemaker, someone you didn't consider when u did your research when u decided who was going to make your cue comes on and casts doubts about the origins or work behind your new wonderbat and all of a sudden its no better than the type of bat u would find in Argos or a sports store????

pleeeeeeease get a grip, its still the same cue you've been playing well with in the last few weeks and chances are unless you let your mental state be effected and u look after it, it always will be.

Gentlemen - I've been reading the posts in this thread and Crispian's with a mixture of horror, interest and awe this weekend. FWIW, here are my thoughts...

I own a wonderful cue made by Jason and three superb cues made Mike W. Archalf_147's post pretty much sums up how I feel about these cues. They are excellent cues and each exhibit an incredible attention to detail and craftsmanship. The fact that their collective value may now have dropped doesn't really bother me because I have no intention of selling them. That applies equally to my TW (which is my playing cue), its value may have gone up but I'm even less likely to sell it than the others.

However, that being said, IMHO honesty and integrity in business and in life are paramount.

I commend Jason for being honest about the 8 cues that originated in Thailand. He made a made a mistake, has fessed-up and I think we should all recognise that and let him move on.

I also think it's a shame that Andy didn't answer Crispian's question last night, if only because it may have saved a great cue from being dissected. His plea to Crispian not to plane the cue was quite emotional! When the dust has settled on this, I hope Crispian re-splices what's left of the cue and gives it to charity or to a youngster who'd appreciate it.

I understand why Andy would react in the way he did. I do feel that he's being made a scapegoat in this (even if that one cue in Crispian's possession exhibited the signs of Thai-construction). By the way, it would be nice if Trev and Dave Coutts could give their opinions on Crispian's photos of the cue. I don't pretend to understand the technical aspects of cue construction at this level, and don't personally understand how it proves anything. Surely, it is circumstantial at best?

I must admit that I'm disappointed in Mike. He normally deals with issues like this head-on with humour and his trademark honest aggression (when required). His silence of course proves nothing. He may feel that he has no case to answer, he may not have even read the accusations but I've always enjoyed his posts on this forum and wish he would at least post something to confirm when he's read the accusations, even if he feels that he has no case to answer.

Finally, jrc750's statement that there's a still a lot more to all this is worrying...Crispian, you've opened the door on this, I can't really see how you have anything to lose now, if you have more information then please share it with us. This subject comes up time and time again, it would be great to be able to put it to bed for good...

[archalf1471]

At least, unlike many makers who have clearly seen posts but have been shying away from the matter, Jason has admitted that he has done it with 8 cues. Jason hand makes all the other cues and perhaps it was wrong to badge up the 8, but, he's not making a great deal on every cue he does handmake compared to what others are making on cues they are still badging as customised. Jason's work is top notch IMO and he still HANDMAKES a great cue. Please feel free to shoot me down in flames.

Will, Jason acknowledged that he does in fact send his shafts out to be machined and I know this is all part of the 'what does constitute handmade' debate BUT I was under the impression that Jason hand planed his cues which is what I was expecting when I placed my order. Maybe its my fault for not asking the question in the first place instead of assuming and maybe it doesn't matter in the long run but one thing is certain in all this, for those that it DOES matter to, they will be asking the questions when next looking to order a cue...
Mick

It has long been rumoured by persons more in the know than i that there is only one cuemaker who uses the handplaning method in making all of his handmade cues in the UK. I don't know if that has changed now.

[jim evans]

Ok fair enough Jim, is there any reason you can think of to explain the way it is spliced compared to most UK cues handspliced the traditional way?

i would splice that way only if i was adding lower splices,its done mainly sides first for neatness when you put flat on so you dont see lines,

[laverda]

He is changing what it says on his badge to custom cues to try and end the bombardment of problems that are being caused by the scapegoating of him that has been caused through the original handmade cue thread.

So going back to an earlier posting of mine where I explained that I had the choice between getting exactly the same cue from either Thailand or Jason with a price difference of +$200 and a much longer waiting time from Jason... and I make the decision based on the fact that Jason's are advertised as HANDMADE... you don't see any issue with this?

Now understand I have not spoken with Jason, I have however followed his facebook updates and the banter there and I probably would buy another cue off him in the future because his work is brilliant and I appreciate his honesty and the changes he has made to his website (regardless of how pee'd off I feel about the price difference and the wait time) so don't come back calling me judgemental or anything... Its simply time the industry followed Jasons example and got transparent.
Mick

So if you knew that if you were to order that cue from a Thai cue maker knowing that it would be as good as the one you own, and pay them the same price you've paid Jason would you still have bought it?

See above the price difference between the 2 cues at exactly the same spec was $200 and yes I would have gone Thai had I known where the shaft was going to come from with Jason

[archalf1471]

ultimately any of these threads that continue in this vain where cuemaker/suppliers integrity is being called into question will be closed down by the site admin, the same as last night's thread was, so I think all the hard work and contributions correct or speculative by all concerned and will leave a lot of potential customers very confused to say the least

archalf1471 - I noticed you are selling your 2 months old Andy Travis cue on ebay UK . . .

Yes mythman I am. Have had it up on a couple of occasions. Firstly before the two threads were started.........hopeful rather than optimistic is a term I think I will use now lol

[willtyson]

So going back to an earlier posting of mine where I explained that I had the choice between getting exactly the same cue from either Thailand or Jason with a price difference of +$200 and a much longer waiting time from Jason... and I make the decision based on the fact that Jason's are advertised as HANDMADE... you don't see any issue with this?

Essentially it boils down to the subjective view of what handmade is in the eyes of one man compared to the eyes of another.

[mrbluejay]

He is changing what it says on his badge to custom cues to try and end the bombardment of problems that are being caused by the scapegoating of him that has been caused through the original handmade cue thread.

How has he been scapegoated? From what I have read, he did wrong and has eventually fessed up, but that won't do the guys who bought these cues, without full disclosure, any good.

[willtyson]

How has he been scapegoated? From what I have read, he did wrong and has eventually fessed up, but that won't do the guys who bought these cues, without full disclosure, any good.

Lol, I'm not bothering with this anymore. Enjoy your tunnel vision chaps.

http://www.jasonowencues.com/questions-and-answers.html

[mythman69]

Yes mythman I am. Have had it up on a couple of occasions. Firstly before the two threads were started.........hopeful rather than optimistic is a term I think I will use now lol

If it helps, I really like the look of the cue.



I was tempted to buy the cue pictured in the start of this thread when it was first put on TSF for sale, but didn't have the funds.

Spent it on an O'min instead.

[jim evans]

Don't think I'll be placing an order with ANY of the 'handmade cue' makers, after these couple of threads...

All this has left a nasty taste in the gob tbh.

i wouldnt just back away theres still lots of cuemakers who make cues generally in the traditional way,ive always stated mine now start from the dowel stage if people arnt happy with that dont ask me to make a cue its that easy,but most cuemakers start by doing the whole business my decision is that i dont think i could go to a woodyard and pick a piece of ash and say this will make a gd cue,the cuemakers who are capable still end up with a lot of wastage this is why the cues they make cost a lot,the dowels i buy are in my opinion up to a ultimate standard and i dont have to bin any so was the best option for me.