R.i.p

[luke-h]

Personally ithink the whole thing stinks and I feel sorry for andy and all the other cuemakers out there being attacked by crispian and now numerous other people on here. Andy has came on here said that the cue is 100percent handmade and now because of some guy from wales nobody even takes his word for it! Pretty sad state of affairs I think, and whats even worse is that crispian is actually getting his hands on other makers cues and stripping them down! No wonder Andy is annoyed!

i can see your point mate, but if it is indeed the case that this is happening hundreds of people have been duped out of a whole load of money...not really fair on both sides......all i know is my cue was worth money before this thread started and now its probably worth less than my yard broom

[Neil Taperell]

i can see your point mate, but if it is indeed the case that this is happening hundreds of people have been duped out of a whole load of money...not really fair on both sides......all i know is my cue was worth money before this thread started and now its probably worth less than my yard broom

That made me chuckle

[throtts]

frazz, you obviously have a lovely personal nature but its not as simple as that, mate. If a consumer is parting with his hard earnt cash then he/she should get what they thought they ordered. 2 variants must be very transparent in the cue making world now, that being, "Custom Made" and "Handmade", the custom one being cheaper obviously.

[Dave Walton]

Yep it looks like an extended cue to me, so either its an extended UK cue or another Thai cue convert. In my opinion we now have proof of andy, Jason and Raymond doing this practice. Just need proof from the big two but that would be a lot more expensive to do as there cues sell for really big money

in actual fact unless im mistaken we have proof of and a.t cue none of the rest as yet......

There's proof of Jason doing it aswell, he's admitted he's done it with 8 cues he got as samples.

[Dave Walton]

Yep it looks like an extended cue to me, so either its an extended UK cue or another Thai cue convert. In my opinion we now have proof of andy, Jason and Raymond doing this practice. Just need proof from the big two but that would be a lot more expensive to do as there cues sell for really big money

In Jason's case it was only 8 Thai cues, plus he doesn't charge enough for his cues anyway IMO.

8 or 80, it was still wrong, people forget Jason only admitted it after being exposed, in saying that at least when confronted he admitted his wrong doing.

[Bigmeek]

Personally ithink the whole thing stinks and I feel sorry for andy and all the other cuemakers out there being attacked by crispian and now numerous other people on here. Andy has came on here said that the cue is 100percent handmade and now because of some guy from wales nobody even takes his word for it! Pretty sad state of affairs I think, and whats even worse is that crispian is actually getting his hands on other makers cues and stripping them down! No wonder Andy is annoyed!

Frazz. Don't know if you've read all the posts but there's input from Dave Coutts and Trevor White regarding what is a Thai shaft so it's not just "a guy from Wales". Jury's still out I suppose but the evidence so far would lead me to side with Crispian but I'm no expert. All I can do is read the posts and form an opinion. Like the other poster has said if I was Andy I would be fighting my corner a bit more. He seemed to be a wee bit evasive in his answers but I guess he feels he has no need to defend himself since he has done nothing wrong.

[jrc750]

In Jason's case it was only 8 Thai cues, plus he doesn't charge enough for his cues anyway IMO.

Sorry Will, but you are wrong here, he still sold them at top price for a cue that needed little work on it by him, FRAUD

[Dave Walton]

Andy why didn't you just answer Crispian when he asked how the cue was made? And why is this cue spliced differently to your other cues? You've stated you 100% handmade it so would you please answer the questions and try and clear this mess up

[jrc750]

The REAL story never came out last night, as Crispian bottled it, i know why he would of as it will have really big repercussions, but he had the guts to start the thread, just not FINISH it !!!
Come on mate, spill the beans

[coomsey76]

Personally ithink the whole thing stinks and I feel sorry for andy and all the other cuemakers out there being attacked by crispian and now numerous other people on here. Andy has came on here said that the cue is 100percent handmade and now because of some guy from wales nobody even takes his word for it! Pretty sad state of affairs I think, and whats even worse is that crispian is actually getting his hands on other makers cues and stripping them down! No wonder Andy is annoyed!

Sorry mate your totally wrong there, as throtts has said totally transparency is needed between 'Custom made' and 'Handmade'......

Fair play to Crispian for standing up for what he believes in and let's be truthful is for the good of the snooker cue buying public!!

[laverda]

Personally ithink the whole thing stinks and I feel sorry for andy and all the other cuemakers out there being attacked by crispian and now numerous other people on here. Andy has came on here said that the cue is 100percent handmade and now because of some guy from wales nobody even takes his word for it! Pretty sad state of affairs I think, and whats even worse is that crispian is actually getting his hands on other makers cues and stripping them down! No wonder Andy is annoyed!

Well I'm glad it all makes no difference to you but I had a choice of buying a $400 Thai cue made to my exact spec and shipped to me here in Australia within a couple of weeks or a 'Handmade' cue for +$600 plus 6 month wait from one of the guys who have confessed to being a part of all this and I went for the 'Handmade' and added cost because I thought I was buying a premium product for not too much more than the Thai. Would I have waited the extra months and extra dollars had I known the outsourcing involved... HELL NO...

We have a thing here in Australia called 'truth in advertising' and that is NOT what has been going on. I'm sorry to say but Andy and ALL other cue makers should be willing to absolutely prove their innocence in all this even if they have only been implicated by the actions of a few other cue suppliers that are certainly involved in this. The whole industry needs to be willing to be transparent and the blame lies with no one but the frauds who have brought the rest of the industry into disrepute.
Mick

[throtts]

So guys, there are two more cue makers apparently doing wrong ?...Are they members on here ?..

[jrc750]

So guys, there are two more cue makers apparently doing wrong ?...Are they members on here ?..

Mike Wooldridge and Robert Osbourne were mentioned (and never got any flack lol) BUT that is still not the BIG story

[willtyson]

At least, unlike many makers who have clearly seen posts but have been shying away from the matter, Jason has admitted that he has done it with 8 cues. Jason hand makes all the other cues and perhaps it was wrong to badge up the 8, but, he's not making a great deal on every cue he does handmake compared to what others are making on cues they are still badging as customised. Jason's work is top notch IMO and he still HANDMAKES a great cue. Please feel free to shoot me down in flames.

[golferson123]

I thought a one piece cue was made out of one piece of ash or maple . Didn't know this was how some were constructed .

Doesn't effect playability though .

Not being a cue maker . I find the construction of cues very interesting . Wish i was that talented .

yes its a common practice when a piece of ash is less than 58", its called optimisation, the ash is dowelled under the splices,b&w did this to their sydney smith cues in the mid 1900s, it does not mean its not handmade nor is it underhand,crispian should have known this as i suspect other cue makers realise it.of course joe public thinks he is being fleeced again.andy starts his splices on the arrows first as it helps him align them sqaure, also again a common practice.its not extended after being made ite done before its made.