R.i.p

[hotpot]

The REAL story never came out last night, as Crispian bottled it, i know why he would of as it will have really big repercussions, but he had the guts to start the thread, just not FINISH it !!!
Come on mate, spill the beans

Dont think Crispian needs to sat no more , i,d be more interested hearing from uk cue makers to clarify the ranges of cues they make , how they are labelled and how much input they actually put into each cue . Until that happens a lot of people will be reluctant to part with their cash unless they know exactly what they are buying .

[golferson123]

Well I'm glad it all makes no difference to you but I had a choice of buying a $400 Thai cue made to my exact spec and shipped to me here in Australia within a couple of weeks or a 'Handmade' cue for +$600 plus 6 month wait from one of the guys who have confessed to being a part of all this and I went for the 'Handmade' and added cost because I thought I was buying a premium product for not too much more than the Thai. Would I have waited the extra months and extra dollars had I known the outsourcing involved... HELL NO...

We have a thing here in Australia called 'truth in advertising' and that is NOT what has been going on. I'm sorry to say but Andy and ALL other cue makers should be willing to absolutely prove their innocence in all this even if they have only been implicated by the actions of a few other cue suppliers that are certainly involved in this. The whole industry needs to be willing to be transparent and the blame lies with no one but the frauds who have brought the rest of the industry into disrepute.
Mick

look andy made a cue!he made it as he sees fit.there is no one way to make a cue stop passing judgment on his methods.

[laverda]

At least, unlike many makers who have clearly seen posts but have been shying away from the matter, Jason has admitted that he has done it with 8 cues. Jason hand makes all the other cues and perhaps it was wrong to badge up the 8, but, he's not making a great deal on every cue he does handmake compared to what others are making on cues they are still badging as customised. Jason's work is top notch IMO and he still HANDMAKES a great cue. Please feel free to shoot me down in flames.

Will, Jason acknowledged that he does in fact send his shafts out to be machined and I know this is all part of the 'what does constitute handmade' debate BUT I was under the impression that Jason hand planed his cues which is what I was expecting when I placed my order. Maybe its my fault for not asking the question in the first place instead of assuming and maybe it doesn't matter in the long run but one thing is certain in all this, for those that it DOES matter to, they will be asking the questions when next looking to order a cue...
Mick

[archalf1471]

R.i.p

tell me something guys. you buy a cue purely to play snooker with, some of you will do it well some of u won't, I have no idea what level you play to and am not bothered. Let's say u pay £300 for said piece of timber regardless of design. Its a wonderful cue its spot on to what you requested. You knock in several large breaks over the course of the next few weeks and have contacted the maker/builder/supplier to say how chuffed you are, best cue ever, feels lovely, great balance, superb finish, best grain you've ever seen, bargain of the cemtury , would even recommend u to the mother in law............

But wait someone you don't know never met haven't really heard of as a cuemaker, someone you didn't consider when u did your research when u decided who was going to make your cue comes on and casts doubts about the origins or work behind your new wonderbat and all of a sudden its no better than the type of bat u would find in Argos or a sports store????

pleeeeeeease get a grip, its still the same cue you've been playing well with in the last few weeks and chances are unless you let your mental state be effected and u look after it, it always will be.

[mrbluejay]

The REAL story never came out last night, as Crispian bottled it, i know why he would of as it will have really big repercussions, but he had the guts to start the thread, just not FINISH it !!!
Come on mate, spill the beans

Sounds like you know enough to spill the Heinz as well !

[hotpot]

tell me something guys. you buy a cue purely to play snooker with, some of you will do it well some of u won't, I have no idea what level you play to and am not bothered. Let's say u pay £300 for said piece of timber regardless of design. Its a wonderful cue its spot on to what you requested. You knock in several large breaks over the course of the next few weeks and have contacted the maker/builder/supplier to say how chuffed you are, best cue ever, feels lovely, great balance, superb finish, best grain you've ever seen, bargain of the cemtury , would even recommend u to the mother in law............

But wait someone you don't know never met haven't really heard of as a cuemaker, someone you didn't consider when u did your research when u decided who was going to make your cue comes on and casts doubts about the origins or work behind your new wonderbat and all of a sudden its no better than the type of bat u would find in Argos or a sports store????

pleeeeeeease get a grip, its still the same cue you've been playing well with in the last few weeks and chances are unless you let your mental state be effected and u look after it, it always will be.

Youre missing the points in question muck .

[archalf1471]

At least, unlike many makers who have clearly seen posts but have been shying away from the matter, Jason has admitted that he has done it with 8 cues. Jason hand makes all the other cues and perhaps it was wrong to badge up the 8, but, he's not making a great deal on every cue he does handmake compared to what others are making on cues they are still badging as customised. Jason's work is top notch IMO and he still HANDMAKES a great cue. Please feel free to shoot me down in flames.

Yes he does and I for one will vouch for the guy as a cuemaker and person in general and can't wait for my handmade/custom/tree/bat/wand/ from him hopefully next week.

[mrbluejay]

tell me something guys. you buy a cue purely to play snooker with, some of you will do it well some of u won't, I have no idea what level you play to and am not bothered. Let's say u pay £300 for said piece of timber regardless of design. Its a wonderful cue its spot on to what you requested. You knock in several large breaks over the course of the next few weeks and have contacted the maker/builder/supplier to say how chuffed you are, best cue ever, feels lovely, great balance, superb finish, best grain you've ever seen, bargain of the cemtury , would even recommend u to the mother in law............

But wait someone you don't know never met haven't really heard of as a cuemaker, someone you didn't consider when u did your research when u decided who was going to make your cue comes on and casts doubts about the origins or work behind your new wonderbat and all of a sudden its no better than the type of bat u would find in Argos or a sports store????

pleeeeeeease get a grip, its still the same cue you've been playing well with in the last few weeks and chances are unless you let your mental state be effected and u look after it, it always will be.

That would be fine if the seller had been honest with you before the purchase, so that you could have made an informed decision. There are stacks of players playing with ****e cues, that is immaterial, this is not cue snobbery, it's about dishonest selling practices.

[laverda]

look andy made a cue!he made it as he sees fit.there is no one way to make a cue stop passing judgment on his methods.

I am not and have not passed any judgement on Andy's work and I can't see any where in my post where you would possibly draw that conclusion (AND my post in response to you was my very first post on this issue even after reading every single post in the original thread and having my 2 week old questionably handmade cue sitting right in front of me). Sadly Andy is involved in an industry that has now been brought into question and the only way that reputations will be restored is through transparency.
Mick

[rob s]

yes its a common practice when a piece of ash is less than 58", its called optimisation, the ash is dowelled under the splices,b&w did this to their sydney smith cues in the mid 1900s, it does not mean its not handmade nor is it underhand,crispian should have known this as i suspect other cue makers realise it.of course joe public thinks he is being fleeced again.andy starts his splices on the arrows first as it helps him align them sqaure, also again a common practice.its not extended after being made ite done before its made.

Exactly, when a piece of ash is under 58" (that is the key sentence)
If andy made it from scratch, start to finish then why didnt he use a 60" block like Trevor white, Dave coutts, Robin cook and Paul Roberts (of stamford cues) do? Unless andy explains this, people will presume rightly or wrongly that it is a Thai cue as they usually have 48-51" shafts

[jim evans]

I have made cues from 50 ins ash ,drilled it weighted it then put another piece on and then spliced it ,jason did this as well mainly to get a forward weighted cue so no prob with 50 ins ash

[jrc750]

Sounds like you know enough to spill the Heinz as well !

Yep, but not for me to say, the people in the Industry (ie Crispian etc) know, so should come from them, as they are the one's peed off, we are just the lowly customer's

[coomsey76]

it's about dishonest selling practices.

You've hit the nail straight on the head there bud......

[archalf1471]

tell me something guys. you buy a cue purely to play snooker with, some of you will do it well some of u won't, I have no idea what level you play to and am not bothered. Let's say u pay £300 for said piece of timber regardless of design. Its a wonderful cue its spot on to what you requested. You knock in several large breaks over the course of the next few weeks and have contacted the maker/builder/supplier to say how chuffed you are, best cue ever, feels lovely, great balance, superb finish, best grain you've ever seen, bargain of the cemtury , would even recommend u to the mother in law............

But wait someone you don't know never met haven't really heard of as a cuemaker, someone you didn't consider when u did your research when u decided who was going to make your cue comes on and casts doubts about the origins or work behind your new wonderbat and all of a sudden its no better than the type of bat u would find in Argos or a sports store????

pleeeeeeease get a grip, its still the same cue you've been playing well with in the last few weeks and chances are unless you let your mental state be effected and u look after it, it always will be.

Youre missing the points in question muck .

Sorry hotpot if I'm being too nieve for u guys but ultimately if the cue plays well and u don't feel shortchanged by the deal you have done with whoever your chosen cuemaker is, then that's good enough for me. and trust me I've had more cues than most of u have spent years on gods green earth combined.
I hope the thread/threads meet their ultimate goal without any bloodshed but I think they will ultimately end up at a dead end.

Good luck to all involved.

[DeanH]

The use of extra pieces on the shaft within the butt, as has been said, is a common practise to extend a short shaft or to extend an existing cue.
The unfortunate issue with the AT cue is that At did not say anything about this when asked, if he had made the cue from scratch then he would have known. But if the cue had been delivered as a butt-spliced cue this probably would not have been known.
A friend of mine recently got a cue from AT (posted elsewhere), my friend asked my advice as to who to got with for his budget. AT's quote was accepted by my friend and it is a lovely cue and my friend loves it and has started to play better than before. The cue was the first ever customer cue my friend had made or even thought possible.
So to my friend the cue is his perfect snooker-partner.
But me, I feel like a chump, as it was my advice my friend asked for. I have not mentioned this thread and its repercussions to my friend, as I do not want to ruin his relationship with the cue.
I feel sad