Quality of ash shaft

[rimmer10]

Hi all
can someboby please tell me if there is a direct correlation between the quality of a shaft and the number of the arrows. Do more arrows mean a stiffer shaft since the darker wood is harder than the lighter one and vice versa? And also is a shaft with more arrows more prone to cracking? And finally is a shaft with more arrows heavier than one with less?
Thanks Richard

[j6uk]

i think it may only be aesthetics, don't think there's any relation to the amount of arrows and stiffness, weight, or as you say cracking/strength.

[rimmer10]

How about straightness of the grain? Would you say it has any effect on playability or is it purely cosmetic as well. How would a snooker player of a very high standard such as yourself determine the quality of a cue?

[Stupree]

Quality of ash shaft

I have tried a variety of cues with a host of grain patterns and find they vary greatly even if the grain pattern is very similar. However have found that cues with about 4-5 chevrons running in both directions along the same side of the shaft forming an '0' in the middle tend to be medium stiffness and very responsive to my action.

The key factor for the playability of the cues I have played with tends to be the length of the splicing and the resulting balance point. The shorter the splicing and lower the balance point in relation to the length of the cue the more flex the cue plays with.

The question of quality though is a difficult one and subjective one. Wood being a natural material will do what it wants to and although can be shaped in to a cue due to its grain properties may have other ideas. This is perhaps where a quality cue maker may allow their shaft woods to fully settle in a suitable environment over a period of months or even years before use and will discard any shaft wood that isn't suitable whereas large scale cue factories may not have the same concern for quality and will let the end user deal with the issue

[Booters]

I have a cue at home with hardly any chevrons, 2 about 8 inches from the tip and the rest of the shaft is completely plain on top and it's the stiffest cue I have ever used, even makes a weird sound when I strike the cue ball.

[karlos fandango]

Once spoke to a cue maker about tight side grains and he said basically the more wood you can see and less grain or wider grain structure the stiffer the cue will be as there are less pores in the timber...makes sense really the less chevrons and wider the grain structure the stiffer the wood/cue will be.

[rimmer10]

Sounds like there's no straightforward formula to what makes a good shaft. Just begs the question of how does a top cue maker approach the subject of a customer request for a let's say medium to stiff shaft? Surely can't be just a case of let's get a piece of ash and see what happens?

[rimmer10]

To carlos fandango
I posted my reply before I had a chance to read your response. Thanks mate

[j6uk]

iv played with some nice hitters in and around the reds that have had crazy amount of arrows and no straight grain to be seen. but the best cues have been the straight grain ones, at lease straight up until it gets to the bridge hand. straight grain is stronger with more flex, so over all better for all round play imo

[RogiBear]

Once spoke to a cue maker about tight side grains and he said basically the more wood you can see and less grain or wider grain structure the stiffer the cue will be as there are less pores in the timber...makes sense really the less chevrons and wider the grain structure the stiffer the wood/cue will be.

I pretty much agree with that. Tighter side grain tends to make the shaft softer, however not always!!!. Generally the greater number of change of densities in the shaft ie more chevrons will create more slip planes hence giving it a softer structure. The heartwood the white part of the shaft is denser than the grain, which is why those with a greater ratio are stiffer. Personally I think the best shafts are those with tight straight side grain, however still have structural integrity, they are not whippy but what i would class as springy its difficult to describe exactly but you can tell from bending the wood slightly. It's also a subjective matter

[Stupree]

Sounds like there's no straightforward formula to what makes a good shaft. Just begs the question of how does a top cue maker approach the subject of a customer request for a let's say medium to stiff shaft? Surely can't be just a case of let's get a piece of ash and see what happens?

I think there are two types of orders that a cue maker will receive. The "I want a cue with (number of ) evenly spaced chevrons on the shaft" and the "I want a cue with a medium to stiff shaft". Occasionally they will receive a request that features a combination of those statements.......... these are the ones that the cuemakers are very very slow to respond to

With medium to stiff being such a subjective and personal term how would they approach it anyway? The buyer will either make it fit that description when they play with it or they will sell it with no bad comments towards the cue maker. It isn't that tougher situation for the cue maker to be in is it. Finding that shaft with an exact amount of chevrons is probably more of a pain in the backside most of the time. Perhaps it is easy to understand why some used pre-turned shafts where the final grain pattern was visible.

[j6uk]

its all about the hit and resonance, and that's down to the individual. i personally like a cue 'when held in one hand just above the bp and struck with the other so as to vibrate the cue' to resonate all the way down to the butt. the more it resonates in the butt, the more responsive iv found the cue to play.

[Stupree]

I pretty much agree with that. Tighter side grain tends to make the shaft softer, however not always!!!. Generally the greater number of change of densities in the shaft ie more chevrons will create more slip planes hence giving it a softer structure. The heartwood the white part of the shaft is denser than the grain, which is why those with a greater ratio are stiffer. Personally I think the best shafts are those with tight straight side grain, however still have structural integrity, they are not whippy but what i would class as springy its difficult to describe exactly but you can tell from bending the wood slightly. It's also a subjective matter

Rogi is right here that there is science and physics at play here although I think most cuemakers will judge based on their acquired knowledge through experience but wood varies greatly and will throw up many anomalies. Cuemaking was going on before scientists and engineers were measuring the mechanical strength of woods. Ash was amongst the woods chosen by trial and error without actually knowing how it ranked against other hardwoods when tested for rupture and elasticity.

Regarding flex I have a very low-tech waggle test that involves holding the cue about 6" from the tip and waggling the butt to and fro to get a feel for the flex and return of the shaft.

[rimmer10]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my question. You have given me a better insight as to what makes a good quality cue. I was hoping for a mathematical formula or ratio as to the behaviour of wood used to make a good cue, however that does not seem to be the case in the real world. I have spent most of my working life as a technician in motor racing, a world of cold hard facts where science and research is everything. Maybe this approach cannot apply to the field of what makes a good snooker cue which seems to be more about subjective feel.

[j6uk]

the chassis would be made from nothing but straight grained ash then