Dawson cue on eBay

[100-uper]

I wonder whether any of the cue experts can advise if they have seen one of these before?



It is currently on eBay (Link here) and is unusual in that it can be dated very accurately from the information on the plate, as being produced between 1895-96. I would therefore expect it to be quite rare, although whether the plate is still attached to the original cue would be for someone else to advise. The fit looks unusually clumsy to me.

The breaks referenced on the cue are
"698 spot barred": this was made in March 1893.
"613 consecutive spots": this was part of a break of 1,840 made in September 1890.

The cue could therefore have been made any time after March 1893, and probably was, but this particular model also mentions "Burroughes & Watts Ltd." and they did not become a limited company until 1895.

Dawson subsequently bettered his spot-barred record break with one of 762 in November 1896, so I wouldn't have expected production to have continued much after this date.

[gazza147]

I have never seen one of these myself but alot of early Cues near the late 1800's, early 1900's have the look as if the badges were put on by a 5yr old!....lol.... I have had a few were the badges were badly fitted and i have a couple of cues with no Badges on at all very old thurston cues with stamp only.


Gaz.

[old school]

If you go on the The Cue Collector website , and look under " cues by player " you will find an example of this cue , definitely an 1890s cue , hand spliced Ebony on Ash with a three screw plate . Hope this helps p.s I agree with your dates of 1893 - 96.

[mythman69]

Here is another (later) Dawson cue

Dawson Facsimile Champion Cue - World's Record Break 823 (Chrtis Lloyd #1).jpg

[Leo]

my god you would be gutted if you spent a few quid on a old cue and this shower of sh*t turned up.

[jrc750]

my god you would be gutted if you spent a few quid on a old cue and this shower of sh*t turned up.

It's fully described so why would you be gutted?

[Leo]

It's fully described so why would you be gutted?

i didn't read the full listing just looked at the pics,but still surely b&w wouldn't make such a hash up of fitting the badge like that

[old school]

Leo , this cue is around 118 years old , I hope I look that good when I hit my century . The damage would be quite acceptable owing to the scarcity of the cue.

[Leo]

Leo , this cue is around 118 years old , I hope I look that good when I hit my century . The damage would be quite acceptable owing to the scarcity of the cue.

disagree I've seen cues at the same age that are immaculate.

[100-uper]

Leo , this cue is around 118 years old , I hope I look that good when I hit my century . The damage would be quite acceptable owing to the scarcity of the cue.

That was my point really. Is this badge sufficiently rare (given a production run of about a year) that it would be worth buying in this condition and having it restored. Always assuming that such restoration would be acceptable to a collector. The other question would be whether the cue and badge are a marriage? I would have thought from the style, that the cue was at least contemporary with the badge.

[old school]

Up to a point I agree with you Leo , but not every rare find is a jewel , a cue like this doesnt come along every day .almost every picture of this cue I have seen has had a damaged badge , so no problem there . The splice is an easy fix , but whether or not it would detract from the value to a " purist collector " I dont know .I agree that the cue appears to be of the style associated with the age and personally my feeling is that the market will dictate what the cue is worth. A sympathetic restoration shouldnt hurt the value of the cue , in fact if we look at antiques in general a restoration , to repair damage mostly enhances the value e.g . paintings being cleaned or furniture being re-finished, in fact to bring back a cue of this sort of rarity must be a bonus to everyone interested in the history of the game and indeed the developement of the modern cue from the early maces to what we have now.

[mythman69]

Hmmm, not sure about the idea of restoration "mostly enhances value".

Many antique dealers tell me that original condition (even with some warts) is better than a modern fix on an antique.

Still I am sure plenty on here have there own ideas of what is best and its value.

[100-uper]

I have been having some dialogue with Gordon Radford and may have found the answers to my questions.

It would seem that this cue (with the "Ltd" badge, post 1895) is not particularly rare, insomuch as there are a lot of known examples about in existing collections. The frequency with which this cue appears tells me that a great many must have been produced after 1895, so manufacture clearly didn’t stop after Dawson exceeded his 698 break in 1896. Indeed, if the next Dawson cue made by B&W records his 823 break in 1907, it would seem entirely feasible that production lasted until at least this date. I suppose only B&W catalogues for the period will tell us for sure.

Gordon thinks that the cue is genuine and the ill fitting badge may be caused by warping. All in all, with the extensive damage, it seems that it is not such a discovery as I initially imagined.

[old school]

The Dawson went for £92 inc postage . If bought for the badge , thats expensive , if bought for a refurb it would be nice to see it restored . Nice cue you found there and a good price for a cue with such damage but obviously someone saw the potential.

[100-uper]

I know that Andy Hunter had his eye on it. Don't know if he was the successful bidder.