Ton Praram Beyond review

[hotpot]

Wished i ordered one now , cant wait to see the cues

[Stupree]

Ton Praram Beyond review

As others have said Jack is great to deal with so you'll have no trouble on that front. I have had one TP cue in my hands which was a Series 1 in maple and it was outstanding quality.

It is unlikely that I will order on behalf of members in this way again, everyone who has ordered has been brilliant and kept their side of the deal well. If I order again I will order a variety of cues of my selection and make them available for purchase.

[cueman]

No offence to Stupree but I prefer to deal direct with the cue maker to ensure nothing goes wrong. Nothing worse than going through a 3rd party, something happens and then the blame game starts, even though sometimes its not the fault of the 3rd party but of course as they dealt with the order they take the criticism.

Only problem with Ton Praram is the site seems a bit messy, half the cues have no price on them and the fluctuation of the Thai Baht currency currently means that the value of these cues is not too cheap right now. Might be better to wait a few months until Jack sorts the site and the currency exchange comes down a bit.

[Stupree]

No offence to Stupree but I prefer to deal direct with the cue maker to ensure nothing goes wrong. Nothing worse than going through a 3rd party, something happens and then the blame game starts, even though sometimes its not the fault of the 3rd party but of course as they dealt with the order they take the criticism.

Only problem with Ton Praram is the site seems a bit messy, half the cues have no price on them and the fluctuation of the Thai Baht currency currently means that the value of these cues is not too cheap right now. Might be better to wait a few months until Jack sorts the site and the currency exchange comes down a bit.

No offence taken and I would advise others who may be thinking about ordering with Jack to do the same. My drive for doing this was to get a few of these cues in people's hands and see what folk think of them, the prices I quoted were trimmed to the bone and left no profit for me.

The Ton Praram website as far as cuemakers go, in particular those based abroad is very good. The prices have disappeared from some of the cues but in my opinion the prices should perhaps be removed as they can mislead those who don't do their research. As for the currency the fluctuations happen and at the level I am dealing at it's no big deal as I it's cues in hands and smiles on faces that matter on this deal.

[cueman]

The Ton Praram website as far as cuemakers go, in particular those based abroad is very good. The prices have disappeared from some of the cues but in my opinion the prices should perhaps be removed as they can mislead those who don't do their research.

Could you expand a little on this as I think not having prices is likely to deter customers from ordering. How can you research info that is not there?

I don't know what has happened with regards to half the cues not having any pricing but it seems to me to be linked to the currency rate because prior to this the prices were in THB. At a request Jack then put it into sterling but this was when the pound was strong against the Baht. The Baht has since strengthened and therefore I believe that they are not making the same level of profit on certain ranges of cues and hence have taken those prices off the site.

[Ramon]

could it not be VAT, yes; Import Duties, no?

not that I condone any illegal methods of not paying taxes!

:biggrin:

No Dean ,, the import duties had to be paid. Especially when it coms from a country like Thailand. And that is different in each country. The VAT is between 20 and 23 percent of the value . When a package arrives at the customs. The officer looks at the value of package. Sometimes people send the package as a gift. in this case the Customs has the right to open the package and estimate the value ,,, however ,, this does'nt happen that often. usually they have no time .... or. but, as Stu has already mentioned. is not worth it to taking the risk !!!! .

[Stupree]

Could you expand a little on this as I think not having prices is likely to deter customers from ordering. How can you research info that is not there?

I don't know what has happened with regards to half the cues not having any pricing but it seems to me to be linked to the currency rate because prior to this the prices were in THB. At a request Jack then put it into sterling but this was when the pound was strong against the Baht. The Baht has since strengthened and therefore I believe that they are not making the same level of profit on certain ranges of cues and hence have taken those prices off the site.

I agree that not listing prices can deter customers from ordering as I am a big advocate of sellers listing prices, it makes buying so much easier. The service that Jack offers does leave the buyer to carry out some work in taking care of the import of this cue to it's destination country and for those who have not carried their research may have a poor experience of Ton Praram cues having to pay what may be an unexpected some of money up to £80. There has been cases where this surprise has taken the shine off of some people's purchase.

It is extremely likely that the reason for the price omissions from the website is as you describe, although Jack should never have wavered from listing prices in Baht. If he wishes to operate more successfully in the UK he should appoint an agent who operates a UK based business and domain listing the cues for a UK price, similar to the Green Baize model.

As somebody who has experience in this market why do you think that other Thai makers do not have websites that list prices?

[cueman]

I believe that the omission of prices is probably due to a few reasons. Firstly the currency as we have already discussed. Secondly, I believe that its down to who they are dealing with, if you are a regular customer, say an agent, then they are likely to get a better deal than a one off order.

Also not putting prices up means they get more enquiries and I guess depending on how busy they are they will price accordingly. If they are quiet you will get a good price, if not then you'll pay a premium. At the end of the day they are running a business not a charity, the days of cheap cues from Thailand is coming to an end.

[guernseygooner]

From my point of view with no VAT to pay I always knew even with courier costs that I would get a decent cue for a good price. I see on the invoice sheets on the parcel that Jack had put snooker cue and value £100. I don't know if he does that for all orders. If VAT was payable then it would have been just an extra £20 but where does it leave you if the cue goes missing or damaged in transit. Will you only get £100 back as compensation?

If I sell a cue from here to the mainland UK I have to put on the customs form that I am returning the cue for alterations and the cue is being sent back to me or I am doing a swap with someone, otherwise I have to pay VAT at the post office to the cues value. I can't put 'gift' as you can only send a gift up to the value of £30 before VAT is payable.

[Stupree]

I believe that the omission of prices is probably due to a few reasons. Firstly the currency as we have already discussed. Secondly, I believe that its down to who they are dealing with, if you are a regular customer, say an agent, then they are likely to get a better deal than a one off order.

Also not putting prices up means they get more enquiries and I guess depending on how busy they are they will price accordingly. If they are quiet you will get a good price, if not then you'll pay a premium. At the end of the day they are running a business not a charity, the days of cheap cues from Thailand is coming to an end.

Yep agreed on all fronts. Tough decision to make deciding whether you are a retailer or a manufacturer, whether you'll deal with the public or trade. Can you be everything to everyone? I feel that Jack is a really helpful chap and makes great cues but he is stuck in the middle at the moment but let's face it he hasn't been around long and is still shaping his business.

[Jack P]

Im here everyone.
I can say that I try to help your guys avoid paying dutie and vat
By declare cheapest as I can.

Or declare as a gift , sample , etc
Normally i did 90gbp to 100 gbp.
If the cue was damage it will be my respond to claim with carrier.

For my website
.... Price gone
Not becase of price re higher or any.
I just clear my company with custom that not easy to deal with.
As i need to pay tax in each year.

Hope you guys understand.

For quoting you can send email direct to praram3cues@hotmail.com
I will reply as soon as i can.

Regards,

Jack

[jono*]

Gg...have you played with the cue yet? How is it in terms of feel and response and without looking at the badge would you be able to tell its a Thai made cue?

[mcgrady13]

praram3 is the great cue maker in thailand.I went to there shop 3 times.

[guernseygooner]

Gg...have you played with the cue yet? How is it in terms of feel and response and without looking at the badge would you be able to tell its a Thai made cue?

I have and it is superb. Nicely balanced and very responsive. The finish is very very smooth in that you cannot feel any grain at all, it feels like a maple cue. So yes, if I didn't know what badge it had it could easily pass as a top UK makers cue (and I have tried a few in the last year)

[gazza147]

Hi Jack,
I did post a reply to this Thread further back Explaining this but not sure if a few People didnt beleive me! that if you the Seller Says its a Gift/Sample etc they would Avoid Paying Duties and Vat! as i have imported many Cues/Items not saying i have Avoided Paying any mind...


Gaz.

I can say that I try to help your guys avoid paying dutie and vat
By declare cheapest as I can.

Or declare as a gift , sample , etc
Normally i did 90gbp to 100 gbp.