Cues and Throw.

[Chappy5]

I have a question for everyone.

I have been talking to an Australian Cue supplier as i am currently playing with a Phoenix master and an O'min Cue. Now my Phoenix Cue has a fair bit of throw and it is affecting my game a bit, while the O'Min has nothing but i like the Phoenix more!

Anyway i recently asked my coach ( 3 Time Australian Champ and played on the world stage also by the name of Robby Foldvari ) and he played with both during a recent session at my home and also said my Phoenix is throwing a lot while the O'Min is fine, although he had no trouble with it as he was allowing for the throw but i am not at that standard yet!! I really like the Phoenix Cues though and i am now thinking of purchasing another which is the highest model they make and top of the range as my Master Cue is an entry level 1 piece.

Now while talking to my supplier the first thing he asks me is what Tip i have on it?? I reply with an Elk and have tried heaps but keep going back to them and he thinks this is making the Cue throw. Personally i cannot see how a Tip can make a Cue throw and he advised me to fit a laminated Tip and it will eliminate the throw........ I am sceptical on this hence why i am asking here!!!

My O'Min has zero throw and an Elk tip from the same box as the Phoenix but the Phoenix has throw affecting my game but i love the Cue and i always play better with it than what i do the O'Min!!

I was always going to buy a new Cue anyway as i love them and wanted a high end Phoenix so i am purchasing the new cue anyway but the comments on how Tips can affect the throw of a Cue is the first i have heard.

Thoughts??

[billabong]

There are more than a few answers / approaches to reducing throw. I'd also not considered the tip type in that equation.

From what I've heard, ferrule material ( blackspin, fibre, plastic, brass ), ferrule wall thickness, cue taper at the pointy end ( effecting whippiness --> stiffness of shaft ), etc

can all have an effect.

I'm sure other members with more in depth knowledge ( and some with less ) will fill out this thread suitably. .

Hopefully some of the solutions can be applied at the Phoenix order page. . good luck :snooker:

[Chappy5]

There are more than a few answers / approaches to reducing throw. I'd also not considered the tip type in that equation.

From what I've heard, ferrule material ( blackspin, fibre, plastic, brass ), ferrule wall thickness, cue taper at the pointy end ( effecting whippiness --> stiffness of shaft ), etc

can all have an effect.

I'm sure other members with more in depth knowledge ( and some with less ) will fill out this thread suitably. .

Hopefully some of the solutions can be applied at the Phoenix order page. . good luck :snooker:

Cheers mate.

I have never heard of Tips affecting throw either and every Cue is different! The ferals from my Phoenix to O'min are identical at 9.7mm and both Brass fitted with hand picked Elks from the same Box but as for thickness of the ferals who knows but there was nothing out of the ordinary when i re tipped them and could see the width of the ferals from the Cue tip with the tip removed.

I understand some Cues do throw while others don't and that is normal as they all have individual traits but as for Tips affecting this....... Hmmmm and i don't know! lol

Will be very interesting to see the replies.

[Benno]

If you have two cues and one throws, why do you like the one that throws more? I know which cue I'd be using!

Also each cue will have a different focus point for the reduction of throw, might be 3", 6" 9". They really are all unique.

It's true that laminated tips reduce throw. I'm an elk master guy and I still cannot get on with laminated tips (the sound and way they take chalk), but they do get rid of a lot of throw. Try it yourself. I play only 8 ball as there are no reliable snooker tables where I live, however when I get back into snooker, laminated tips all the way, more than likely a talisman soft.

For the moment, I actually find throw useful in 8 ball. Whether that is a legacy of familiarity I'm unsure.

[Chappy5]

If you have two cues and one throws, why do you like the one that throws more? I know which cue I'd be using!

I knew this was coming!

I cannot explain it and i suppose it is like sleeping with Liz Hurley every night even though you know she has cheated on you before compared to having a fat ugly blob that has been faithful do the same thing..........but it is just not ticking all those boxes for you every night!!



lol and i always seem to play better with the Phoenix even with the throw!

[Leo]

I knew this was coming!

I cannot explain it and i suppose it is like sleeping with Liz Hurley every night even though you know she has cheated on you before compared to having a fat ugly blob that has been faithful do the same thing..........but it is just not ticking all those boxes for you every night!!



lol and i always seem to play better with the Phoenix even with the throw!

Most Thai cues i have played with tend to be quite stiff and haven't come across a whippy one as yet, I have also tried a Phoenix and couldn't see nothing wrong with it, why not buy another one and see how that plays.

[m@rius]

Not sure about the tips, but I read somewhere that brass ferrules probable throw more than fibre. Is that true? Could be an option then...

[vmax4steve]

All cues throw if you don't strike the cue ball dead centre, that's the middle and both ends of the throw argument. Some throw less than others but they all throw. The trick is to play centre ball so that there is no throw and to get used to how much your cue throws when playing with side.

Don't lsten to those who are marketing anti throw cues, they're trying to sell you something you don't need. Didn't help Mark Williams at all now did it, and as a seasoned pro he really should have known better.

If your cue is throwing then you aren't hitting the cue ball in the centre, work on that with solo practise, don't expect a new cue will make you more accurate if it throws less, you will still not be striking centre ball and will only be swelling the coffers of people who are out to make money from a scam, preying on your uncertainties and fears.

Ask yourself this question, if they work, then why isn't every pro out there using a so called anti throw cue ?

The onus is on you to cue straighter, so get a nice cue, get used to it and stick with it and practise, practise, practise.

[Terry Davidson]

I agree with most of the comments here. Every cue will throw to some degree and the only selling point I can think of for someone buying a 'low deflection' cue is if they happen to put on unintentional side all the time and a cue with less throw will reduce (but never eliminate) the accuracy of the shot.

Generally a less stiff cue will throw less and throw can be further reduced by having a lighter ferrule and also reducing what they call the 'end mass' of the cue but there is just no way to totally eliminate throw, only reduce it a bit. My own opinion on the matter is if the centre of the cue is reduced along with the last 15" or so this should make a cue with medium stiffness and throw will be less.

I have tried a couple of supposedly 'low deflection' Acuerate cues and I've found they still have some throw (despite what Nic Barrow says regarding the Acuerate) and in fact I have further reduced the amount of throw on an Acurate by sanding it down in the middle portion a bit and also reducing the height (therefore the weight) of the ferrule. The cue was already at 9.25mm and only 17oz which was Acurate's lowest throw model.

There is one more point here on throw. A player can have a cue with any amount of throw and even excessive throw but if that player uses the cue for a long time he will eventually get used to the throw and play well with it. The smart player will choose one good cue and stick with it over his playing career.

I have never noticed any difference in the throw of a cue when I changed tips from Talisman S to Elk Master or Pro Granite BUT I do use a cue with the plastic 'blackspin' ferrule technology from MW. My cue is also medium flex because for a long time I had the problem of cueing right-to-left and getting some unintentional side and in fact I still do when I really crank up the power.

For one specific cue to be the best cue for any player I believe all he has to do is get used to it by getting tons of practice with it. (Despite the fact that I've been switching cues for over 7 years now because I was trying to find 'the one' but after trying out at least 10 different cue makers MW was the first one who made exactly what I wanted and I've stuck with this cue for well over a year now and I am pretty accurate with pots no matter how much side I intentionally use on shots, even power shots just because I've gotten used to this cue.

Terry

[golferson123]

Cues and Throw.

I agree that you should get to know how your cue throws but throw is a side effect of no spin so more throw less spin,also a cue that throws badly takes a lot of shots out of your armoury

[Benno]

Most people never realise that the same cue will throw differently based upon bridge distance. Finding a balanced cue, based upon how a player adapts to differing bridge lengths is vital. Especially for 8 ball where the hand is not always on the bed of the table and bridging differs most.

The shape of the tip, way the tip reacts (hard, medium, soft - layered etc), material of the cue, stiffness of the shaft, weight of the cue, ferrule size, ferrule weight, ferrule width, ferrule material all play a factor as does the cue action. At the end of the day, what you want is a linear progression of the transfer of throw, based on the above factors to help you judge a shot accurately. I don't think the throw is the problem, less the ability to judge the throw difference as you move further out from the centre of the white ball.

It's not about straight shot accuracy, if that was important we'd all be using 14mm flat tips. It's about the 1/4 1/2 3/4 and full ball contacts and the interactions needed to get the white ball where we want it every time, all the while maintaining good straight shot percentages.

For me, it's a domed tip with flat centre. But this differs from cue to cue, tip to tip, always looking for the natural progression as more side is required and added for position.

Hope someone understood that hahaha!

[Benno]

I agree that you should get to know how your cue throws but throw is a side effect of no spin so more throw less spin,also a cue that throws badly takes a lot of shots out of your armoury

This is a very good point. Sometimes however a bit of throw is better than more side, if that makes sense? Swerve shots etc Don't know why but this is why I cannot get on with layered tips, reduces my options as a player. But that could be 8 ball bias??

[ADR147]

throw is a bit of fuss over nothing. ALL cues throw to some extent, the trick is to learn the throw of your cue and forget about it!

[golferson123]

throw is a bit of fuss over nothing. ALL cues throw to some extent, the trick is to learn the throw of your cue and forget about it!

sorry ad must disagree cue ball throw is one of the main reasons for getting on with a cue or not, any good player will know whether its a goer or not with one half ball blue with check side, to say its irrelevant is misleading

[ADR147]

sorry ad must disagree cue ball throw is one of the main reasons for getting on with a cue or not, any good player will know whether its a goer or not with one half ball blue with check side, to say its irrelevant is misleading

if you can play, you can play, and you will learn the throw of the cue you are using and play the shot accordingly.