Cues and Throw.

[guernseygooner]

How do you know for certain that you hit every shot exactly the same with both cues ?

Because I can repeat it consistently. The white needs to be hit higher with one cue to get same result.

I'd bet that Trump could play his deep screw long distance shots just as good with your cue as he can with his.

I'd bet Trump couldn't deep screw long distance on normal club tables with carpet cloth and 20 year old balls

It's all about ego in the end, you either admit that you're not as good as you think you are and learn to live with it, or you practise like hell to get better or you continually make excuses and blame your tools.

Strange one that. No ego, don't think I'm very good but I can play. A simple question was asked regarding different reactions with different cues

[Benno]

Great posts Trevor, very well stated!

Many players disadvantage themselves because you are ignorant. You can't have a conversation with them about how their cue plays (good or bad) because they don't know and don't care. Some struggle with certain shots because the cue they are using is not suited to that shot, or doesn't fit them correctly. You can soon tell how comfortable a player is when they get out of position and are backed into playing a shot with a lot of side.

If you'd rather make up potential short falls in your equipment with extra concentration, power to you. I envy these people immensely!!

[Ramon]

How do you know for certain that you hit every shot exactly the same with both cues ?

I'd bet that Trump could play his deep screw long distance shots just as good with your cue as he can with his.
If you're playing top run thru and get more stun than run thru, you've played a poor shot. The cue ball will react to where as well as to how it's struck. As I stated in a previous post, you can stick a tip to a metal pole and still play good snooker, it's simply a matter of what you're used to and your game develops around what you're used to.

I believe that every player likes the cue he learned with, he made his game with it and got used to its characteristics, and then rather stupidly some will change it because of this or that or whatever and then spend an awful long time and a lot of money in finding one that is almost the same.

Take the case of Alex Higgins, used a Burwat Champion from the off and won his first world title with it in '72. It broke because Alex used very thin tips that other people discarded and hit the ball really hard at times, so his search for a new one began, and all the excuses came with it, despite playing beautiful snooker at times with cues he didn't like. He never gave himself the time to get used to something that was very similar, every time his timing was a little bit out and he played poorly it was always the cues fault and never anything to do with him.

It's all about ego in the end, you either admit that you're not as good as you think you are and learn to live with it, or you practise like hell to get better or you continually make excuses and blame your tools.

I guess, I owe you my apologies !!!!! (I mean it, is not a sarcasm).
I saw your post in other thread (coaching section),, and I thought you are someone who dos'nt believe in technique !!!!
As I read your posts in this thread. I see I was wrong.
Anyway,, I apologize!!!

Sorry guys,,off the topic !!!

[Chappy5]

Thanks for the all the replies fellas and some great responses with many different opinions and plenty to think about and ponder over.

:snooker:

[vmax4steve]

Because I can repeat it consistently. The white needs to be hit higher with one cue to get same result.

I'll bet that something to do with the taper or butt size of the cue in question means that you strike the ball differently.



I'd bet Trump couldn't deep screw long distance on normal club tables with carpet cloth and 20 year old balls

I'd concur with that but I was talking about your cue not table conditions



Strange one that. No ego, don't think I'm very good but I can play. A simple question was asked regarding different reactions with different cues

I wasn't being personal there, just generalising about those who constantly change cues, chalk, tips to try to improve their game rather than getting down on the table.

..........

[trevs1]

Good comment ! Just to add some fuel to the fire Guy walks into club picks up a beat up rack cue and then does a Ronnie on you ! you stand there with your top of the range cue and cant help wondering did I waste my money ! (If you can play you can play) very wise words.

But you are referring to a difference in players here and not in cues. A great player will always be a great player, although he will be more consistent with a great cue than he would be with a bad and untrustworthy cue. that's just how it is.

The fact is, that if a player with limited ability and experience, using an expensive custom built cue, gets totally thrashed by a player who IS talented and very experienced, using a cheapo average cue, then that's nothing to do with the cue. The difference there is in the players.

If the same two players met again five years later when the initially inexperienced player has improved and has become a top level player, things may work out to be very different. That might well be the case even if they happen to be using the same cues as they did in their first encounter too.

What does that tell you about the respective cues.???.....nothing, it's still about the players.

[trevs1]

In a word that's very true, i could pick up and most half decent players here would pick up a rack cue and average mr smith with his wooldridge £700 cue wouldn't get a look in.

Actually to be pedantic, "that's very true" is three words. Anyway, my response to this would be the same as the one above.

[trevs1]

How do you know for certain that you hit every shot exactly the same with both cues ?

I'd bet that Trump could play his deep screw long distance shots just as good with your cue as he can with his.

If you're playing top run thru and get more stun than run thru, you've played a poor shot. The cue ball will react to where as well as to how it's struck. As I stated in a previous post, you can stick a tip to a metal pole and still play good snooker, it's simply a matter of what you're used to and your game develops around what you're used to.

I believe that every player likes the cue he learned with, he made his game with it and got used to its characteristics, and then rather stupidly some will change it because of this or that or whatever and then spend an awful long time and a lot of money in finding one that is almost the same.

Take the case of Alex Higgins, used a Burwat Champion from the off and won his first world title with it in '72. It broke because Alex used very thin tips that other people discarded and hit the ball really hard at times, so his search for a new one began, and all the excuses came with it, despite playing beautiful snooker at times with cues he didn't like. He never gave himself the time to get used to something that was very similar, every time his timing was a little bit out and he played poorly it was always the cues fault and never anything to do with him.

It's all about ego in the end, you either admit that you're not as good as you think you are and learn to live with it, or you practise like hell to get better or you continually make excuses and blame your tools.

It's an assumption (and probably an incorrect one) that Trump could play a deep screw shot the same with any other cue as he could with his own. Two entirely different cues can have very different playing characteristics, and one may be responsive and the other not very responsive at all. Even the best players in the world would struggle to recreate the sort of movement in the white that they can with a decent / very responsive cue, and especially so on your regular club tables.

It's also an assumption that players are wrong to change a cue. That's every bit as misguided as it is to assume they will spend a fortune in the process. Not every player who changes their cue is a serial cue swapper, nor are they all buyers of high end cues. Of course, there are plenty of players who do swap and change cues, spending a small fortune in the process, but, many of those that I have known that do this do not lose a fortune in the process, because they sell on what they don't keep. This is sometimes done at a profit over what they paid. To be fair to people who do this also, many do it because it's another aspect of the sport they get enjoyment from. It's certainly not just snooker that you'll find this either, golf, fishing, watches and hifi are other things that people spend serious money on, even though in truth they probably don't "need" to. There are professionals that do this too, it's not just Joe Average, and it's certainly not always about looking to find a quick fix to a hopeless technique by buying a new cue. There are a multitude of reasons why people buy cues, it's not all about searching for Excalibur, and certainly not "all" about Ego.

[trevs1]

Ronnie is a classic case of the cue mattering very little. All that matters is that the cue you use you are comfortable with with, the rest regarding the cue is in the mind.

Even when bearing in mind the genius that O'Sullivan is, I'd bet a pound to a penny that the cue is most definitely important to him, very important. The fact that he has changed here and there does not mean that he can, or will, just pick up anything at all and play at the sort of consistent standard he expects of himself. He will be very selective about what he eventually settles with, no matter how many times he changes cues. I think people are rightfully mesmerised by how incredibly talented he is, but, with a totally crap untrustworthy cue in his hands, he would be up against it to win many ranking events. Like anyone else that plays, he (the player) is by far the most important piece in the puzzle of what makes great snooker happen, but although the cue is a very small part, it's still a vital part, and is as much (if not more so) physical than it is mental. If the physical is right, then the mental can settle and go to work. Conversely, if the cue is not doing what you ask of it, you are continually likely to struggle to settle mentally.

[trevs1]

Anyway, enough from me on this.

The simple answer to the OP's questions is, that No, no and no again, the tip is not the part of a cue which will determine whether that cue deflects the cueball. The cue is the reason. Tips can and do affect it to some extent of course, but it's so easily changed and resolved that the tip is not a major concern ever in the perfomance of a cue.

A medium firm to firm tip will provide the sort of feedback and grip that virtualy all players prefer. Stick something like that on the cue, bed it in and get testing the cue. If it's not working well when striking the ball with side, it's going to be the cue at fault, or more likely again, the person using it.

Good luck with your choice and enjoy your game OP.

[gazza147]

Great Replies Trevor fair play!

I get it quite often too be honest when somebody who isnt the Best of Players buys a Cue of me if its a Parris Cue, Trevor White, etc they think its a Magic wand and it can make them instantly play better and make 100 Breaks!

One guy bought a Brand New Parris Ultimate from me and after a few days phoned me and said this Cue is Crap m8 do you mind giving me my money back? i said no problem but can we meet up in Morriston Snooker Club and we can go from there he said ok.

Well I took a couple of different Cues with me and when we met up i gave him his Money back and i said do you fancy few frames and I will use that Ultimate and you can try one of these other Cues i bought with me he said yeah ok well what a Laugh that was...... We had 5-6 Frames i had 108, 67, couple of 50's i said nothing wrong with this Cue m8 as you can see he said do you think its in my head then! I said no im gonna be honest here your not the Best of players and even if i sold you a £20,000 Cue wouldnt improve your game overnight or in a few days but it will help improve it in time but you need to Practise abit more aswell to get to a higher level...... Amazingly he gave my Money back and said sorry to waste your time and gave me £20 Fuel money for driving to Morriston to meet him.


Gaz.

[Inoffthered]

I'd bet Trump couldn't deep screw long distance on normal club tables with carpet cloth and 20 year old balls

Aye. I saw him when he served his apprenticeship at Keynsham, and he [nor anyone else], could!

[cueman]

Aye. I saw him when he served his apprenticeship at Keynsham, and he [nor anyone else], could!

No Judd, didn't have that kind of cue power when he played at Keynsham. Maybe on the match table that Andrew Norman used which had the table heaters on and a no.10 cloth but not on the club tables in there.

In fact if anyone was a regular down at Keynsham would know that the best potter in that club wasn't Trump or Norman, it was a lad called Ryan Meredith who is to this day the best long potter I've ever seen at club level. Me and my mate who used to play at keynsham very regularly about 10-12 years ago used to watch this lad and laugh at his potting. Time and again he used to be on tight on the cushion and smack in a red at 100 mph and was just unreal at potting. Shame he never had the right mentality to take the game seriously though.

[sammyts]

To be fair cueman there have been many at keynsham over the years who fit that mould, Mark Elliott and Ian Preece to name a couple, plus those who looked average at best who have gone much further than expected like Rob Milkins !

[Inoffthered]

To be fair cueman there have been many at keynsham over the years who fit that mould, Mark Elliott and Ian Preece to name a couple, plus those who looked average at best who have gone much further than expected like Rob Milkins !

Aye. It's weird how that happens, init?