Interesting discussion Coutts cue for Ding Junhui!

[itsnoteasy]

I respect your opinion cueman as I respect the opinion of other members. After all, this is a fourm..
But I'm going to tell you something and I ask u something !!! (hope you don't mind).
There are many people who think that a cuemaker makes cues, just to make money. No doubt about it. These guys have to make money to live.
But I think is not all about money . These guys produce a product and make a cue and there they are proud of it!! They enjoy of it.
Is not all about the money. Is about the feeling.
A few days ago, asked a friend of mine, to replace the tip of his cue (he can'nt do it very well). So, I did it. Believe it or not, when I finished (was a beautiful work,btw), I was proud of what I had done. I gave the cue to him and he was happy. And that gave me a amazing feeling...But Imagine that he ask me: would you like to replace the tip of my cue, but that should remain between us. You may tell no one that you have done it !!! No big deal, but
Despite I have asked him no money, I see that as an insult. Is almost like if he is ashamed for my work!!! that is the way it comes to me !!
I mean, you ask someone like DC, give me the result of a lifelong wek and career without putting your name on it. I mean, this is not like specifications (18 oz or 19 oz.....).. . And that's an insult.
is easy to come here and say, NO big deal.
But just go and stand in the shoes of DC. You would not see such a request as an insult???
And someone like Ding, should know this better. I understand that he has a contract and he stuck on it. But he did'nt have to submit this request in the first place at all !!!!.
What would you say if DC would make this cue for Ding, but not for you ??? Because that's what I would call a hypocrite.
I mean, if you ask DC, make a cue for me without your name on it.
He doesn't do it. He does'nt do it for Ding either. Sorry to say this, but imo he's a cuemaker who treats everyone with same respect.
It may be that Pro's buying no cue's of him in the future . But he is at least fair. And that is the way going on in this world. If you want to be honest you need to choose the hard way. I respect the cue makers such as MW and DC. Those are people who say: there is no difference between you and a pro. You both are people and your money is just as good as the money of a pro.

I can't agree with any of that Ramon, I think some of the top makers are in it for the money,( now , maybe not when they started out, that's why you can't get cues off them in the UK)and they do treat you and I diferently from the pros already, that's why you wait years for a cue and they wait weeks.
If you are in it for the love of making a great product , having the knowledge you made the cue a top pro is using should be enough to give you pride in your accomplishment. If you crave the publicity ,and even worse crave the publicity of a non story( cue maker doesn't make a cue) then you are not making them for the love of making the best product you can.
As for you changing a tip for your friend , if he did ask you not to tell any one ,you have two choices ,do it and keep quiet as that's what he asked you to do, ( and why wouldn't you do it ,he's your friend)or don't do it, both points are fair enough, but if you chose the second what type of friend would you be if you went around telling everyone what he asked you , how do you think that would make him feel, do you think he would think of you as a friend, or someone who bitched about him because he asked for a certain favour from you. I would also say if you can't do your friend a favour without needing to take public credit for it , that shows a fault in you not in him.

[Neil Taperell]

So Ding finally decides on a cue , do Star then put their badge in it ?.......would assume not .

So Star can't say that they made the cue , so when his millions of fans ask what cue does he use ........what does he answer . Don't know , it doesn't have a badge

[ADR147]

er, I think fatnew meant, if DC refused an order from him, would DC tell the world about it on FB?

my view on all this,
1. a customer can ask
2. a cuemaker can refuse

now to post the refusal and the details of such on FB, freedom of speech - ok; but personally I would not have and another reason why I don't do FaceTwit stuff

yes i expect he would - remember the people who read his facebook are meant to be his friends.

[Ramon]

I can't agree with any of that Ramon, I think some of the top makers are in it for the money,( now , maybe not when they started out, that's why you can't get cues off them in the UK)and they do treat you and I diferently from the pros already, that's why you wait years for a cue and they wait weeks.
If you are in it for the love of making a great product , having the knowledge you made the cue a top pro is using should be enough to give you pride in your accomplishment. If you crave the publicity ,and even worse crave the publicity of a non story( cue maker doesn't make a cue) then you are not making them for the love of making the best product you can.
As for you changing a tip for your friend , if he did ask you not to tell any one ,you have two choices ,do it and keep quiet as that's what he asked you to do, ( and why wouldn't you do it ,he's your friend)or don't do it, both points are fair enough, but if you chose the second what type of friend would you be if you went around telling everyone what he asked you , how do you think that would make him feel, do you think he would think of you as a friend, or someone who bitched about him because he asked for a certain favour from you. I would also say if you can't do your friend a favour without needing to take public credit for it , that shows a fault in you not in him.

Not all cue makers!!
BTW, you're surprised when you know that some pros also have to wait for their cue. Ask Andrew about this. He knows all about it.
As for my friend. Is not about what I do for him or not, is not about my choices. Is about how his request comes across. Maybe he means nothing bad with it. But the feeling that gets is different.
Please, read my statement one more time!!! When you ask a cuemaker something like this, that means you have no respect for his lifelong work. That's how he comes across. that's no big deal for you and for me neither!!! But it is about how the cuemaker experience that request.

[itsnoteasy]

I just don't get what's upseting about it, can you do me a favour a certain way ,yes or no? Whichever you chose is correct for you, but don't blab that's ungentlemanly.
If something as simple as this upsets you so much,I don't understand how you function in the world.

[Ramon]

I just don't get what's upseting about it, can you do me a favour a certain way ,yes or no? Whichever you chose is correct for you, but don't blab that's ungentlemanly.
If something as simple as this upsets you so much,I don't understand how you function in the world.

I put it again,,, I'm not upset!!! the cuemaker is upset!!! This is not about you or me. Is about feelings of someone else.
BTW,, I have no problems if you don't agree with me. But,, You might want to try understand that !!!! . If not. Is your choice, anyway. thanks for rplay.

[cueman]

Wasn't going to add a reply but as I've been called out I will on this ocassion.

If Dave Coutts wants to stand by his name and only because it bears ALL his hard work, tell me then why he has cues made up for him by someone else and refuses to allow their name to be put on those cues that he has badged up in his name!

Of course he is doing it for money and for his own ego, otherwise why refuse not to fit a badge yet then hypocritically think its right to put his own badge on cues that have not been made by him?

I guess we know the answers, its his name he can do what he likes with it, but on this occassion in response to Ramon, going by your thinking, you would think this to be wrong, no?

[golferson123]

I put it again,,, I'm not upset!!! the cuemaker is upset!!! This is not about you or me. Is about feelings of someone else
BTW,, I have no problems if you don't agree with me. But,, You might want to try understand that !!!! . If not. Is your choice, anyway. thanks for rplay.

for someone not upset you sure sound it ie bold type, multiple exclamation marks.ramon you missed the mark on this one it is a clear attempt to garner publicity by not making a cue! parris take note

[Ramon]

for someone not upset you sure sound it ie bold type, multiple exclamation marks.ramon you missed the mark on this one it is a clear attempt to garner publicity by not making a cue! parris take note

well, believe it or not, if I tell you certain things in my statement and you do'nt read it ( or u do as u do'nt read it ). Then I think, perhaps, he would have missed it.
So I write it in bold type,, in the hopes that you read it this time well. ( u never know ).
btw, if you want to think that I'm upset ... i have no problem with that. As long as you're happy. !!!!
As for your statement. May I perhaps make a suggest? Go and look in a mirror. do you See yourself OR DC ?? I mean, maybe this makes it you lot easier to realize that you're not DC. And he may have a different view than you have. ( or parris ).

[Ramon]

Wasn't going to add a reply but as I've been called out I will on this ocassion.

If Dave Coutts wants to stand by his name and only because it bears ALL his hard work, tell me then why he has cues made up for him by someone else and refuses to allow their name to be put on those cues that he has badged up in his name!

Of course he is doing it for money and for his own ego, otherwise why refuse not to fit a badge yet then hypocritically think its right to put his own badge on cues that have not been made by him?

I guess we know the answers, its his name he can do what he likes with it, but on this occassion in response to Ramon, going by your thinking, you would think this to be wrong, no?

good post !!!!. Believe it or not. I'm agree with you. As I said in my previous statement. These guys do their work for the money. They have to live. No one said that money is not an issue for them !!!
I know cue makers who have enough money for the rest of their lives.
But they make still cues. !!!! Why ??
Because they take pride in their work. Because they take pride in their name. !!! and enjoy of what they do !!!!
For these guys their name is their life's work!! is everything where they have worked for. To make a something of it !!!
BTW,, was absolutely not my intention to condemn you. Maybe well attempting to lat you thinking as DC does (in this situation). Wther you do it or not??? is your choice!!

[Leo]

If Dave coutts didn't need Ding then why was he prepared to shove the rest of the riff raff at the back of the order book queue when it clearly says on his website that waiting times are 2 1/2 years and not taking orders at the moment.
I said before as soon as a cuemaker get a better offer come along the general hard working customer get pushed out of the way

[golferson123]

ramon do me a small favour and tell me the makers are who you know that have enough money for the rest of their life?

[ADR147]

If Dave coutts didn't need Ding then why was he prepared to shove the rest of the riff raff at the back of the order book queue when it clearly says on his website that waiting times are 2 1/2 years and not taking orders at the moment.
I said before as soon as a cuemaker get a better offer come along the general hard working customer get pushed out of the way

this happens in all walks of life. try getting a table in the ivy then try again if you are johnny depp !!

[ADR147]

ramon do me a small favour and tell me the makers are who you know that have enough money for the rest of their life?

i can name two.

[golferson123]

well, believe it or not, if I tell you certain things in my statement and you do'nt read it ( or u do as u do'nt read it ). Then I think, perhaps, he would have missed it.
So I write it in bold type,, in the hopes that you read it this time well. ( u never know ).
btw, if you want to think that I'm upset ... i have no problem with that. As long as you're happy. !!!!
As for your statement. May I perhaps make a suggest? Go and look in a mirror. do you See yourself OR DC ?? I mean, maybe this makes it you lot easier to realize that you're not DC. And he may have a different view than you have. ( or parris ).

or indeed i may have a different view than you