Do any cue makers use English Ash any-more?

[eaoin11]

I'll pass on that Byrom, but thanks for the offer.

It's enough to say that great cues could be made from either, or even other timbers for that matter.

Ash can be, and is, variable no matter where it is sourced from. It can be paler, darker, have shades of greenish brown to it or a creamy pinkish shade. It can be hard or softer, heavier or lighter. It's not exactly accurate or realistic to catagorize it simply on the basis of where it grows. Of course, it's "likely" to be a little more consistent from certain areas (or latitudinal) regions, but that in itself is no indicator that it "will be" like anything in particular. It can still be good or bad as far as material for cue shafts.

There is no magic involved in English ash, it's still available and is fine for cues. The problem is that it's just not as easy to get what you want if you want the best material for a cue shaft, and for this reason, it tends not to be considered.

If anyone, and I mean anyone, tells you that it's superior in any way shape or form, they are either one of two things.
They are mislead / misinformed themselves, or they stand to profit from getting you to believe it.

Yep and someone who is actually offering it now does so in spite of making similar points in the past. But although he has it on offer I don't think he advertises it as being superior in any way.

I was interested in what English ash because it was a term still used often when I was a new player (in the 90's). Eddie Charlton refers to it in his 1976 book, Winning Snooker, and the Powerglides cues that were on offer at the time had a little information tag on them saying that they had English ash. The Parris cues seemed to have it at that time and the local cue maker was also making cues with it until the late 90's when we were hearing that English ash stocks had run out.

So, what made it different? The English ash seemed to be of much tighter grain on average than and with lots of even chevrons. It made a big impression on me because some of the cues I tried with it seemed to have a beautiful soft hit that made it easy to generate cue power. My guess though is that what became known as 'English Ash' was actually just higher grade old growth ash and it's unlikely that it all originated in England, if any did. Mike and Trev have said something to this effect before.

When I was a new player I was hearing a lot of older players talking about English ash and there were a lot of people thinking that ash had to have tight grain to hit well but in recent years I've seen enough new cues that play great to put all of those preconceptions to bed.

[DeanH]

...and the local cue maker was also making cues with it until the late 90's...

Can I ask who is this local cue maker?

[trevs1]

I have no idea who offers it or what they may say about it, but it's just ash and that's it.

I also have no idea what Eddie Charlton said in any book, and neither do I know what Powerglide or John Parris used in years gone by.

I have seen native (and yes, there are other countries here within the UK that have ash growing too besides England) ash that has wide grain and tight grain, softer and harder, lighter and heavier, paler and darker in colour, but, it's still just ash. The problem with native ash is that it's just not consistent enough to source it in decent quantities for use in cues of a high quality. It tends to have wilder grain and some discolour, and therefore, is less desireable because it is so unappealing to look at in a cue. It's a different story if we are talking about furniture, because then it comes into its own and produces finished products with character and beauty. A small product like a cue, which is handled and viewed during use is not really sympathetic to wilder off coloured grain though is it, and so, native material is not altogether practical. Anyone who has spent all bloody day searching through stacks of boards at a timber yard would testify that it can be a disheartening process. I just cannot imagine spending that same amount of time looking through boards of native ash, because I know I would be wasting my time. I may get some good material from it, but I am far less likely to manage that than I would be if I was looking through packs of USA timber. That's just how it is.

The fact that you recall cues made (or supposedly made) from native ash is not any indication that it will provide a softer feel either. When I first started to make cues, I made dozens using native ash, as that was all I was aware of. Many of them were hugely variable and had harder or softer contact sounds. There was certainly no "definitive" native ash sound, or response for that matter. What you recall was purely chance, and nothing more.

The same applies to any cues today, no matter what they are made from. Fabulous playing cues could be made from fabulous looking ash, and likewise, they can be made from ugly, streaky, knotty twisty grained ash too.

As you say, when considering cues, go into it with no preconceptions and you will be doing yourself a favour, no matter who you are or what you are looking for.

[j6uk]

The same applies to any cues today, no matter what they are made from. Fabulous playing cues could be made from fabulous looking ash, and likewise, they can be made from ugly, streaky, knotty twisty grained ash too.

As you say, when considering cues, go into it with no preconceptions and you will be doing yourself a favour, no matter who you are or what you are looking for.

so true, but these words will not be heard by the cue junkies and their esthetic cravings

[Leo]

so true, but these words will not be heard by the cue junkies and their esthetic cravings

Blindfold a cue Junkie and he wouldn't know wether his stick is £150 or £700

[j6uk]

no one likes to see a poor cue junkie shivering for chevs

[Stupree]

Do any cue makers use English Ash any-more?

Just the thought of that bought me out in a cold sweat. Luckily I just tucked in my Parris pyjamas and pulled up my Mike Wooldridge duvet set

[Leo]

Just the thought of that bought me out in a cold sweat. Luckily I just tucked in my Parris pyjamas and pulled up my Mike Wooldridge duvet set

I'm actually laying in bed with parris while trevor is doing a lap dance it's great.

[Neil Taperell]

What extension are you using

[Byrom]

Does not take long to bring the subject matter down a level - I would never dream of doing this personally

[Byrom]

Does not take long to bring the subject matter down a level - I would never dream of doing this personally

Well ok this might be a tiny bit contradictory if you have seen some of my posts - but my dreams of trevor white and Parris are simply down to the cues they make unlike Leo I have different taste in those other types of dreams but hey ho each to their own.

[Stupree]

Do any cue makers use English Ash any-more?

When Leo painted that scene that pictured a hand gun being pointed at Trevor........... John is there voluntarily!

[j6uk]

i imagine dancing at gunpoint would be difficult and leo would need to keep prodding poor trev with his little pistolet demanding authenticity

[jrc750]

Trevor asked me to show you some pics
In this image, the wide board in the centre of the pile is pretty discoloured with some olive streaking through it. No matter how heavy the timber or how perfect the grain, this would be no good for me as it would produce shafts full of streaks of varying colour.
The boards to the left of it was also discoloured but less so. This is also no good.
The board on the far edge of the image lower down on the pile also shows some discolour to the egde of the board.
These are some of the issues you get when selecting ash. This is all North American stuff, and so what you may hear of "how white and perfect" it is, is clearly utter rubbish (word changed lol)


This image show some square blanks which have been cut from the boards I choose.
Here you can see how even these have colour variations. The piece in the centre of the image shows some olive streaking and is no good really, even though I've stuck it in the pile to work on. There are also one or two that you may be able to see have some greyish streaking. These are also not perfect but are ok and usually work out fine.
The big splodges of darker colour are simply moisture marks from where the timber was kiln dried


This shows some parts of a few packs that I was looking through that day. This is just some of the stuff I look through when I am there. The two larger piles are packs before they've been gone through. Typically, I'll look through perhaps four or five packs in a day, and that's just ash.
Maple is done afterwards usually, and is far heavier and even more knackering

[Ramon]

Thanks for the info and pics !!
I wonder, should the cue maker buy the whole package or he can sort the good ones out, there in place ??What is the policy there?