Machine Spliced vs Hand Spliced

[vmax4steve]

We all know thinner walled ferrules throw less, or at least I do, as someone who has tipped many cues and had a strike with every one; I know exactly how thick every ferrule is on every cue I tip zombie, by memory. I've played with a cue with no ferrule and it minimises throw the most so I already know that the more brass you add, the more throw; endmass.

Did all these cues have different shafts, different butts, balance points and various weights then Master Blaster ? I'm willing to summise that they did purely on the basis that they were all different cues, but you assert that it's only the ferrule or lack of that made them different.

How do you come to that assertion.

BTW this phrase 'end mass' comes from people trying to sell their own cue products. Steve Davis knew nothing of end mass when winning six world titles with an old brass ferruled ash cue with an ebony butt, but was looking into it when his game declined and was seeking a quick cure.

He didn't find one and neither has anyone else, but many have parted with wads of cash and many more will continue to do so.

[Master Blaster]

Did all these cues have different shafts, different butts, balance points and various weights then Master Blaster ? I'm willing to summise that they did purely on the basis that they were all different cues, but you assert that it's only the ferrule or lack of that made them different.

How do you come to that assertion.

BTW this phrase 'end mass' comes from people trying to sell their own cue products. Steve Davis knew nothing of end mass when winning six world titles with an old brass ferruled ash cue with an ebony butt, but was looking into it when his game declined and was seeking a quick cure.

He didn't find one and neither has anyone else, but many have parted with wads of cash and many more will continue to do so.

Look mate, TD has had many a cue, some identical with different ferrules, some with shorter ferrules and some with thinner walled ferrules. He says it makes a difference and he can feel it. He's IBSF Master Coach. He's had hundreds of cues go through his hands. Now what have you had to come to your counter 'assertion' because his view is based on experience?

[jrc750]

It's very tiring to hear this all the time, every cue plays differently, end of !
You can get used to it by practice, why search for something 99 % of pro's probably don't even care about ??

[golferson123]

Look mate, TD has had many a cue, some identical with different ferrules, some with shorter ferrules and some with thinner walled ferrules. He says it makes a difference and he can feel it. He's IBSF Master Coach. He's had hundreds of cues go through his hands. Now what have you had to come to your counter 'assertion' because his view is based on experience?

don't hide behind other people's opinions, if you don't have your own beliefs on the matter then don't comment on them

[j6uk]

whos td terry griffiths?

Look mate, TD has had many a cue, some identical with different ferrules, some with shorter ferrules and some with thinner walled ferrules. He says it makes a difference and he can feel it. He's IBSF Master Coach. He's had hundreds of cues go through his hands. Now what have you had to come to your counter 'assertion' because his view is based on experience?

[Master Blaster]

whos td terry griffiths?

Terry Davidson on here mate. And if the orcs (not you) wish to read the read of the thread, they will see that in my 'experience' the same is true.

[j6uk]

oh. i know tels had about 10 cues from the top makers to try and find the one, but i don't think hes had hundreds. plus im not sure hes ever tinkered around with cues to know the what makes them tick

Terry Davidson on here mate. And if the orcs (not you) wish to read the read of the thread, they will see that in my 'experience' the same is true.

[golferson123]

Terry Davidson on here mate. And if the orcs (not you) wish to read the read of the thread, they will see that in my 'experience' the same is true.

Stop quoting other people then ,make it your own!.Terry is a big lad so don't drag him into your arguments

[Ramon]

Did all these cues have different shafts, different butts, balance points and various weights then Master Blaster ? I'm willing to summise that they did purely on the basis that they were all different cues, but you assert that it's only the ferrule or lack of that made them different.

How do you come to that assertion.

BTW this phrase 'end mass' comes from people trying to sell their own cue products. Steve Davis knew nothing of end mass when winning six world titles with an old brass ferruled ash cue with an ebony butt, but was looking into it when his game declined and was seeking a quick cure.He didn't find one and neither has anyone else, but many have parted with wads of cash and many more will continue to do so.

Finally,,,, common sense!!
If someone can't play snooker , this has nothing to do with the cue / ferrule / or whatever ...
nothing wrong with buying a better quality cue with better finish!!
but for heaven's sake do'nt blame ur cue for your own faults!!

[Tim65]

This thread had some merit when it was about the difference between hand & machine splice cues but has now degenerated into techno-babble.Throw? Deflection? End mass? I've been watching pro snooker for over 40 years & never heard any of those mentioned by any professional.Not even Willie Thorne! Sounds like a load of excuses for unwanted side to me.And the only cause of this is bad cueing.Joe Davis said that the hardest thing was to hit the cue ball where you are aiming to hit it.Did he worry about deflection & end mass? Incidentally,if there were any truth in these theories wouldn't it follow that every professional would have a modern cue? Nobody would touch an old cue but as we all know vintage cues are very highly rated & sought after.I'll stick to working at my technique to improve my game & let others worry about the thickness & material of their ferrules.

[denja]

this thread had some merit when it was about the difference between hand & machine splice cues but has now degenerated into techno-babble.throw? Deflection? End mass? I've been watching pro snooker for over 40 years & never heard any of those mentioned by any professional.not even willie thorne! Sounds like a load of excuses for unwanted side to me.and the only cause of this is bad cueing.joe davis said that the hardest thing was to hit the cue ball where you are aiming to hit it.did he worry about deflection & end mass? Incidentally,if there were any truth in these theories wouldn't it follow that every professional would have a modern cue? Nobody would touch an old cue but as we all know vintage cues are very highly rated & sought after.i'll stick to working at my technique to improve my game & let others worry about the thickness & material of their ferrules.

great could not agree more !!!!!!!

[Maverick54]

I agree. Before I read this thread I thought a ferule was a wild cat.

[trevs1]

This thread had some merit when it was about the difference between hand & machine splice cues but has now degenerated into techno-babble.Throw? Deflection? End mass? I've been watching pro snooker for over 40 years & never heard any of those mentioned by any professional.Not even Willie Thorne! Sounds like a load of excuses for unwanted side to me.And the only cause of this is bad cueing.Joe Davis said that the hardest thing was to hit the cue ball where you are aiming to hit it.Did he worry about deflection & end mass? Incidentally,if there were any truth in these theories wouldn't it follow that every professional would have a modern cue? Nobody would touch an old cue but as we all know vintage cues are very highly rated & sought after.I'll stick to working at my technique to improve my game & let others worry about the thickness & material of their ferrules.

I agree that this thread has turned into a joke, but to be fair, there wasn't much to discuss on the basis of the original question.

It could pretty much be summed up by saying this.....

Player has old machine spliced cue which felt good. Player buys new cue / cues, which happen to be hand spliced (perhaps custom made) that more money. Player finds that after trying numerous cues, of all sorts of styles and price points, that he prefers the old machine spliced cue.

That's hardly headline making stuff is it, and while some discussion may follow on, this has been ridiculous.

Yes, there will be hand spliced cues, machine spliced cues, ebony butt cues, rosewood butt cues, no butt at all cues, jointed cues, one piece cues, brass ferruled cues, synthetic ferruled cues and so on and so on, that will either play poorly, fairly averagely or even incredibly well. However, that is NOT likely to be due to any one of the cues' component parts or construction "alone" necessarily. It won't be due to the name on the badge either. I will try not to go waffling on too far with my own view on this, but it's suffice to say that cues of all styles and descriptions can and do play amazingly well, while conversely, cues of all sorts of styles and descriptions can and do play shockingly badly too. There is no one cue "type" that will fundamentally outperform any other type every time, and that's a fact. It matters not a bloody thing what any coach says, what any player says or what any cue maker says. If I had any agenda in this argument, surely I'd be saying my own cues were the best, wouldn't I. But no, I'm not, because I have no agenda and am just telling it like it is.

The fact that some players might have had the best results (in their own experience) with a certain cue or cue type does not indicate that any particular cue type is superior in some way. For them personally, their view may have some validity, but that in itself is not proof that such a cue type cannot also be down right awful too, because it can. They may just not have come across that in their experience. Virtually all types of cues could potentially be fabulous or useless, no matter what they may be. Having said that, I am not suggesting that there aren't some advantages to certain aspects of a cues' materials and construction that can and "often" do have a positive effect, because there are such advantages. These advantages are really only guidelines though, and will occasionally throw up anomalous results, even when a cue is made well within these guidelines. What does that tell us.???.....It tells us that although we can assume to some degree that a cue should perform well, it's unpredictable how well. This is just a fact that we can either choose to accept or refuse to accept. It doesn't make it any less true though.

Finally, getting onto cueball deflection or throw, (oh look out) well yes, that does exist and it does make a cue either more or less reliable and trustworthy. Now, in saying that, I am not suggesting that a cue which throws the cueball when striking with side is impossible to use, because it's not. I have known some players to use cues which throw the ball so badly, that I have wondered how they ever decided to stick with it. (Ricky Walden's old Parris Ultimate cue was an example of that) For them though, it's what they've got used to, and are reluctant to move away from, and that's fine. The same applies to cues which are dead and unresponsive, or excessively heavy or that have an incredibly small ferrule etc etc. These individual aspects of a cues' physical feel or characteristics may be intolerable for many, but for some who have got used to it, are acceptable. That does not mean it's what others should be looking to use. That would be a moronic suggestion. As above, cues that excessively deflect or throw the cueball off when striking off-centre white can be any type of cue, no matter what they are. We can however go back to the guidelines that I mentioned above, and use our knowledge to try to reduce the amount of deflection by making a cue in a certain way. But, I can assure you, that although we may manage to reduce deflection with those techniques, we may also be adversely affecting other aspects of how the cue performs. So, we may well end up with a cue that has limited or virtually no deflection, but one which we cannot screw back more than 20" with. It's just not that precise a science to claim that one aspect of a cue is a "fix all", it's not.

The bottom line is that practically all types of cues can feel and play great and all types can be very average or even poor. What people claim for their own cues, or cues they've tried, makes no difference to that fact.

[bolton-cueman]

finally, sense has been spoken.

[jrc750]

And i hope Master Blaster takes note and stops filling the forum up with garbage