Machine Spliced vs Hand Spliced

[eaoin11]

But, I can assure you, that although we may manage to reduce deflection with those techniques, we may also be adversely affecting other aspects of how the cue performs. So, we may well end up with a cue that has limited or virtually no deflection, but one which we cannot screw back more than 20" with. It's just not that precise a science to claim that one aspect of a cue is a "fix all", it's not.

This is interesting as my recent experience has suggested the same. A cue that I bought recently (by accident) with a fibre ferrule plays very well for UK pool in virtually every regard except when it comes to playing screw. I can't seem to get into the white as well with it (the response doesn't feel as sharp). That's not been a huge drawback on the smaller table though so for me the benefits have outweighed that issue with feel and positional play much improved once I adjusted. Dominic Dale has mentioned that fibre ferrules don't transfer as much power so maybe this is the same issue.

[Tim65]

Having slept on it I now think Master Blaster is 100% correct.Certainly the advances in cue quality have improved the standard of the game.Anyone with any knowledge of snooker history knows that in the early 20th century frames would take 5 or 6 hours to play due to the poor quality straw cues of the day.It wasn't until the late 1920s when Joe Davis began experimenting with wood cues that it was possible to make actual breaks & my Grandfather still remembers the night at Thurstons in 1936 when Joe recorded breaks of 11,12 & 17 in the same session."Snooker from the Gods" my Grandad says.Of course World War Two led to many more advances,primary of which was the new lightweight brass ferrule which replaced the old 3lb cast iron ferrule in the early 1950s.Using a cue with this ferrule in 1955 Joe made a world record break of 31 - a record which stood until 1977 when an 18 month old Ronnie O'Sullivan,using a prototype BAe Sytsems nuclear cue,made a break of 776.Of course now the record books are re-written on a daily basis.Remember how we were all amazed in 2005 when John Higgins became the first professional to go an entire season missing a ball - something most amateurs can do now.With further developments in cue technology even Neil Robertson's record of a century in every single frame in 2013-14 may become the norm.Of course there is already a discussion advocating a similar response to the sport of golf to these advances.This could lead to fundamental changes in the game & already the Crucible Theatre has said it would be unable to accommodate the World Championship if the new experimental 468 ft x 234 ft tables were adopted.On a personal note I have decided to retire from the game.Being something of a Luddite I am totally unable to adapt to the new breed of cues but realise that I am totally unable to compete without doing so.This was brought home to me recently when ,despite my 30 odd years experience,I lost to a complete novice.My antiquated Peradon Royal just couldn't compete with the carbon-fibre,ultra-thin-platinum-ferrule,anti-throw,anti-deflection,no-more-tears cue of my opponent - Professor Stephen Hawking.

[DeanH]

Machine Spliced vs Hand Spliced

superb history of the game there and a cracking read

[eaoin11]

Having slept on it I now think Master Blaster is 100% correct.Certainly the advances in cue quality have improved the standard of the game.Anyone with any knowledge of snooker history knows that in the early 20th century frames would take 5 or 6 hours to play due to the poor quality straw cues of the day.It wasn't until the late 1920s when Joe Davis began experimenting with wood cues that it was possible to make actual breaks & my Grandfather still remembers the night at Thurstons in 1936 when Joe recorded breaks of 11,12 & 17 in the same session."Snooker from the Gods" my Grandad says.Of course World War Two led to many more advances,primary of which was the new lightweight brass ferrule which replaced the old 3lb cast iron ferrule in the early 1950s.Using a cue with this ferrule in 1955 Joe made a world record break of 31 - a record which stood until 1977 when an 18 month old Ronnie O'Sullivan,using a prototype BAe Sytsems nuclear cue,made a break of 776.Of course now the record books are re-written on a daily basis.Remember how we were all amazed in 2005 when John Higgins became the first professional to go an entire season missing a ball - something most amateurs can do now.With further developments in cue technology even Neil Robertson's record of a century in every single frame in 2013-14 may become the norm.Of course there is already a discussion advocating a similar response to the sport of golf to these advances.This could lead to fundamental changes in the game & already the Crucible Theatre has said it would be unable to accommodate the World Championship if the new experimental 468 ft x 234 ft tables were adopted.On a personal note I have decided to retire from the game.Being something of a Luddite I am totally unable to adapt to the new breed of cues but realise that I am totally unable to compete without doing so.This was brought home to me recently when ,despite my 30 odd years experience,I lost to a complete novice.My antiquated Peradon Royal just couldn't compete with the carbon-fibre,ultra-thin-platinum-ferrule,anti-throw,anti-deflection,no-more-tears cue of my opponent - Professor Stephen Hawking.

Look I've said it before (many times) and I'll say it again (a thousand more times if necessary). Take two cues, one with the standard 3lb cast-iron ferrule and one with this new-fangled brass ferrule. If you painted the ferrules, 99.99% of players WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE!!!. THAT'S A GOD-GIVEN UNMISTAKABLE FACT. Any one who says otherwise is obviously A CRAP PLAYER,,, easily swayed by sales talk or A SALESMAN HIMSELF!!!

If you ever try to say that anything's different,,, I will repeat the above until you are completely cured of ANY tendency to consider NEW IDEAS!!!

[Dozza19792]

Oh yes.....
Been there done that....
Started playing with a £20 2 piece Riley from Argos. Practiced, got better bought a better one for £100......practiced a bit more....I then acquired an old Nelson 1 piece made a few 100's, so i thought...righty then lad, time to buy something better.

Took a trip down to John Parris, bought a lovely 3 piece with all the bells n whistles....£320 all in......played no better to be honest.....sold it on ebay for over £200 a few uears later as i couldn't find the feel I used to have with old Nelson 1 piece.

The cue finally broke due to me hitting the side of the table when attempting a power shot of the cushion....

I now play with a Kingsley Kennerley match cue.....its machine spliced and in my opinion
Does me just fine.

[DeanH]

Oh yes.....
Been there done that....
Started playing with a £20 2 piece Riley from Argos. Practiced, got better bought a better one for £100......practiced a bit more....I then acquired an old Nelson 1 piece made a few 100's, so i thought...righty then lad, time to buy something better.

Took a trip down to John Parris, bought a lovely 3 piece with all the bells n whistles....£320 all in......played no better to be honest.....sold it on ebay for over £200 a few uears later as i couldn't find the feel I used to have with old Nelson 1 piece.

The cue finally broke due to me hitting the side of the table when attempting a power shot of the cushion....

I now play with a Kingsley Kennerley match cue.....its machine spliced and in my opinion
Does me just fine.

Kingsley Kennerley Match Cue - not seen one of these, there is a thread for Old Cues, can you get some pictures up of it

[DeanH]

duplicate post

[Dozza19792]

I'll see if I can figure out how to do it.

[DeanH]

in TSF you need over 10 posts and patience to get the attachment functionality (and other functions); but you can paste the IMG code from say Photobucket into you post to display the images

[Dozza19792]

Ha ha....I like a challenge.

[Master Blaster]

Your Nelson was a 1-piece and your Parris a 3-piece. Obviously, a 3-piece won't have as much feel, the brass joint kills feedback. MW recommends 1-piece cues and if not, he makes the best jointed cue with as much wood to wood contact at the joint as possible. But I'd still rather have a 1-piece machine spliced than a 2-piece hand spliced in general.

Machine spliced shafts tend to be inferior, some brands like Phoenix excepted. Cue makers save their best timber for the hand spliced mkt where the money is. machine spliced timber is ok but it tends to be 2nd grade or cast off stuff. And there is more shaft wood at the butt end of a hand spliced, so in general, more feel. It's pretty obvious to anyone with a few brain cells why.

[j6uk]

3/4 cues can have as much or more feel and power as one piece, and if you have a good shaft regardless if its a machine or hand spliced the cue should be a nice player

[Dozza19792]

Your Nelson was a 1-piece and your Parris a 3-piece. Obviously, a 3-piece won't have as much feel, the brass joint kills feedback. MW recommends 1-piece cues and if not, he makes the best jointed cue with as much wood to wood contact at the joint as possible. But I'd still rather have a 1-piece machine spliced than a 2-piece hand spliced in general.

Machine spliced shafts tend to be inferior, some brands like Phoenix excepted. Cue makers save their best timber for the hand spliced mkt where the money is. machine spliced timber is ok but it tends to be 2nd grade or cast off stuff. And there is more shaft wood at the butt end of a hand spliced, so in general, more feel. It's pretty obvious to anyone with a few brain cells why.

I agree with your points......I learnt a lesson with 3/4 jointed JP......May i just say.....The reason I think I found it so "off" for me was many reasons.

Firstly the JP had a slimmer butt, was 1.5 oz heavier, was Ash shafted compared to the Nelson's Maple shaft......I admit that at the time I was naively drawn as many have been, into thinking a new, more expensive cue would take my game upto the next level......when in reality I tried to change too much.....

I now realise 15yrs later that in reality I shoul of just had the Nelson refinished by Glovers which was 10 miles away....

I'm still saddened to this day that it broke diagonally behind the ferrule so was basically shagged, as I may still have it now....Hey Ho, thems the breaks(pardon the Pun)...

[Dozza19792]

Kingsley Kennerley Match Cue - not seen one of these; there is a thread for Old Cues, can you get some pictures up of it

Posted a few pictures in old cues thread......not brilliant, but u get a rough idea of how it looks.

[eaoin11]

Your Nelson was a 1-piece and your Parris a 3-piece. Obviously, a 3-piece won't have as much feel, the brass joint kills feedback. MW recommends 1-piece cues and if not, he makes the best jointed cue with as much wood to wood contact at the joint as possible. But I'd still rather have a 1-piece machine spliced than a 2-piece hand spliced in general.

Machine spliced shafts tend to be inferior, some brands like Phoenix excepted. Cue makers save their best timber for the hand spliced mkt where the money is. machine spliced timber is ok but it tends to be 2nd grade or cast off stuff. And there is more shaft wood at the butt end of a hand spliced, so in general, more feel. It's pretty obvious to anyone with a few brain cells why.

Sorry but I've heard this many times before and have never been convinced by it. I've seen too many 3/4 cues with awesome feel and too many 1 pce hand-spliced cues that were dull (and vice versa). Mark Williams always had great touch with his 3/4 machine spliced (I think?) Barracuda and Neil Robertson has enormous cue power with his 3/4 Parris.

Now a physicist or engineer, etc might be able to confirm or dispute this, but this is what I think. (I'm not trying to sell anything or preach here). Harder, denser materials actually transmit vibrations more effectively than less dense materials. The impact happens at the tip and is then transferred quite a long distance through the least dense part of the cue (the shaft) before it reaches the butt, which may or may not have a brass joint in it. Whatever the butt material, it will be heavier and denser than ash and transmit the vibrations more effectively than the shaft whether it has a brass joint or not. The brass is even more dense and will transmit vibrations even better. So actually, assuming a butt and joint of sound construction, the feel is mainly going to be limited by the least dense material in the cue and that's the shaft. I see no real benefit in having the shaft right down to the base of the cue when it's encased in ebony splices anyway.

Just my thinking, take it or leave it.