Selecting hard Elks (or any tip, I suppose!)

[screw]

Lol i do the exact same thing as Terry suggested by dropping the tip and listening out for that higher 'plink' sound. So i know exactly what he meant. Cant say for sure how acurate this method is though, but as a side note i now buy my elks (loose) of stu at greenbaize and the last 2 times he sent me some very compressed elks that were excellent. So maybe worth a try giving him a shout out??

[trevs1]

funny where you say Elks are hard, where often others have called Elks soft!

the comment about only having a few in a box that are "good" has been mentioned often as well

flicking the layers? Elks are not laminated but a single layer "pressed".

Trevor White says he checks Elks by using his finger-nails on the sides and try to pull apart (if I got this correct?) to see how compact the tip is.

Many say to check the hardness of a tip is to press your finger nail into the top edge to see how deep it goes, as an indication of the hardness the tip will be.

If you pick up a tip and hold it between both hands, using forefingers and thumbs of each hand, stick your thumbnails into the side walls of the tip, and see if you can get any movement in it.

If you can see significant movement, whereby you can actually pull the tip apart almost, then it'll be useless.

If you can see limited movement, but can't quite pull it apart, it will be softish and will need compressing. It may be fine.

If you can get very slight movement, but you feel a lot of resistance, the tip will be fairly firm and may not need compressing

If you cannot see any movement at all, and the side walls feels almost impossible to get your nails into, it's hard.

Over time, you will learn what to feel for when selecting Elkmaster tips. The softer ones which need compressing are tricky to select, as some will be borderline useless and no amount of compressing will work. When they are fitted, trimmed and shaped, they will lose their shape and feel soft for ages. Better not to bother with them at all. The best of them are ones which you can just get a fraction of movement in the sidewall. These are fairly firm, and once bonded on, trimmed and shaped, will be totally useable. If you prefer a firmer feel to them, then once the tip has been fitted and shaped, it can be compressed by knocking it down with a wooden block, or by turning the cue upside down to bump it against a hard floor (not tarmac or anything moronic like that obviously). Then it can be re-shaped into final shape and away you go.

Elkmasters are as good as anything, and once you can choose them well, will work well every time. If you get half a box of good tips for every box you buy, they still work out miles cheaper than many other tips out there. They are excellent value and it's no wonder they've been on the end of all sorts of cues that have won all sorts of major ranking events.

[Terry Davidson]

Ahhh...words from the Maester ^^ who has probably done more tips than all of us put together.

Just this afternoon I've had another tip problem and it's really starting to pee me off! I had a Talisman S de-layer on me about 2 weeks ago so I put on another Talisman S and in attempting to screw off the black and get up near the opposite middle pocket I mis-cued and the top layer came off again (however, the cueball went about 15ft just not on the table). So I installed a Phoenix MH black, but I noticed today the damned tip is playing 'dead' in that I get very poor spin on the cueball. Screwing back off the black I can only make the centre of the table whereas before I could get close to the opposite middle bag (if I don't mis-cue that is).

So I've just installed one of ADR's layered tips but the damned thing just looks too high. Just going to shape it now.

If this ADR tip doesn't work I think I might try and find a hard Elk and give that a shot. I have about 60 or 70 of them here and I've checked them all in the past so one of them will work. I also have a few of those Tweeten green specials but they just seem to be like hard Elks but just a different colour.

[trevs1]

Ahhh...words from the Maester ^^ who has probably done more tips than all of us put together.

Just this afternoon I've had another tip problem and it's really starting to pee me off! I had a Talisman S de-layer on me about 2 weeks ago so I put on another Talisman S and in attempting to screw off the black and get up near the opposite middle pocket I mis-cued and the top layer came off again (however, the cueball went about 15ft just not on the table). So I installed a Phoenix MH black, but I noticed today the damned tip is playing 'dead' in that I get very poor spin on the cueball. Screwing back off the black I can only make the centre of the table whereas before I could get close to the opposite middle bag (if I don't mis-cue that is).

So I've just installed one of ADR's layered tips but the damned thing just looks too high. Just going to shape it now.

If this ADR tip doesn't work I think I might try and find a hard Elk and give that a shot. I have about 60 or 70 of them here and I've checked them all in the past so one of them will work. I also have a few of those Tweeten green specials but they just seem to be like hard Elks but just a different colour.

Maester, what's a maester.....Is it like a monster, but Welsh.?...haha.

I'm not a massive fan of laminated tips, though not all are the same I grant you. While they keep shape fairly well, there can be the issue of layers coming apart. Not great that is it. Some, such as Talismans, are hard to cut into shape for some people too, but once they are trimmed well and nicely shaped, they remain like that forever it seems. The trouble is, if your cue has a naturally hard contact sound, and you fit a Talisman, whether it be soft medium or hard, they all sound rock hard to the point it feels like you have a pebble glued to the end of your cue. Some players like that hard feeling, some not so much. I'd say most like a tip to feel firm, with a crisp, clean contact, but one with the feeling of bite and grip. When tips are overly hard, they can lose that feeling.

I have to admit, I've never tried anything that feels so different from any other tip. Like cues, if we could blind test them, I reckon people would be surprised at how little difference there is between one brand and another. Very hard Elkmasters could easily be mistaken for Talisman, and softer Elkmasters for other softer tips, like Blue Diamond. Much of what constitutes a decent tip is in the selecting of something that's got the right degree of firmness, fitting it well, ensuring it's well shaped and of reasonable thickness and compressed if need be. Of course, different cues will have differing natural contact sounds, but even then the tips which work best are often those in the firm..ish bracket.

Much of what feels right to the individual is in their own preference for firmer or softer contact sound from the cue.

[Terry Davidson]

Jeez Trevor....you're closer than I am...it's old Scottish for 'Master'. I first heard Robbie Coltrane use it when he was playing a 19th century 'Maester' (of the house I think).

[trevs1]

Jeez Trevor....you're closer than I am...it's old Scottish for 'Master'. I first heard Robbie Coltrane use it when he was playing a 19th century 'Maester' (of the house I think).

Scottish you say.... us Welshies never go up there, unless it's to spank them in rugby....haha.

It's dangerous up there you know. There are folks there who would bludgeon you to death for your cue................

Andy Watt...cough cough.

And Master.???....that's properly stretching it Terry. Better stick to Monster.

[andy carson]

Scottish you say.... us Welshies never go up there, unless it's to spank them in rugby....haha.

It's dangerous up there you know. There are folks there who would bludgeon you to death for your cue................

Andy Watt...cough cough.

And Master.???....that's properly stretching it Terry. Better stick to Monster.

i shall have you know the scottish are wonderful people and the best on the earth (ok ADR thats me safe from a ban now is it?)

[Leo]

I don't mind the Scottish but I hate that sturgeon nutty woman

[timcunnell]

Lol i do the exact same thing as Terry suggested by dropping the tip and listening out for that higher 'plink' sound. So i know exactly what he meant. Cant say for sure how acurate this method is though, but as a side note i now buy my elks (loose) of stu at greenbaize and the last 2 times he sent me some very compressed elks that were excellent. So maybe worth a try giving him a shout out??

Thanks mate - I will give him a try! I know tips are really cheap - a box of 50 Elks is only a few quid. But if that box of 50 only contains 20 or so usable tips, I'm not sure I am keen to trust my own judgement on which ones are any good! I'd be happier paying £2/3 a tip and knowing that someone who knows what they're doing has confirmed its a good'un!

[screw]

Selecting hard Elks (or any tip, I suppose!)

No probs, just try and explain to stu your frustration regarding elks and ask if he can pick out some good ones. Hopefuly they should play ok at least if not perfect, as you can never be 100 percent sure how a tip will feel only until after you have fitted it. The other option could be the Phoenix black tip i suppose? Tbh im not a fan of laminated tips due to them breaking all the time, but must admit the phoenix medium i got of stu was quite a nice hit and of good quality. Held chalk well and never broke, unlike those talisman and kamui nonsense.

[Fairuz]

Hey Guys,

there are someting that i would like to share about this Elkmaster Tip..
most people like to play with soft tip because it more forgiving but want their tip to be last like hard tip which not flatten very fast, and love the feel of firm n springgy coming from the tip,and also more people like their tip to feel solid with crisp sound and that why most people using hard tip, i would tell ya!! there are recipe to get all of this which is only a little modifications on Elakmaster tip.
for the info past 10 years im been using this secret recipe to modified this tip and place it to worse cheap cue, and sold it with high price to decent club player, and most of them bought it because they like the feel of that cue and the price were reasonable.

here are the recipe:-

things u need to have.
1) get an Elkmaster tip
2) buy a pack of "Eno" from shop or baking soda.
3) buy a small pack high fat Milk or get a fresh milk from boobs
4) Vice grip or Table Vice to compress tip later on.
5) Dryer or hair dryer.

here are the step u need to do;

1) get a mug fill it with hot boiled water, then soak that Elkmaster tip in there together with Eno or Baking soda, you will notice there a bubble keep coming out from that tip in that water, leave it until there are no more bubble comimng out from it. (note sometime there are no bubble coming out at all from Elkmaster tip, do not panic because you just found good one an Elkmaster tip)
this process for opening an air pore on that tip and also soften the leather, trap air inside the tip is the one which make your tip feel springgy effect and aswell lower the squirt.

2) after you notice there are no more bubble coming out from that tip mean that this process is done, you will notice this tip expand a little from its original size and there also allot of pore had open from tip surface. Took that tip from that mug , and wipe that tip with paper towel to make it dry. Now filling up that mug with High fat milk, if you have microwave boild up that milk, if not you have to do manually then fill it to mug.
Then throw again that Elkmaster tip that you already drying into that boiled milk, now you will notice your tip bubbling with milk, now leave it until that milk cold by itself. ( this process for filling up that pore gap on that tip with milk fat and also harden the tip so it will wear harder )

3)Now after this milk already cold remove that tip from there and clean it with paper towel until its dry, you will notice your tip a bit harder then before and there also a small white dotted filling up every gap on your tip which is milk fat.
bring it to vice and compress it, note ( original Elkmaster height compresson is equvalent to soft tip feel, press a bit more is medium feel, half from its original size is hard feel) my suggestions press it to medium as my custumer all of then fell in love with that feel.

4)Get a Dryer now blow heat air to it until you notice your tip start to look drying but do not overdoing it as you will melting you cue tip or worse shrink the size of your tip.. blow it with hot air slowly, you just want to remove water from tip on this process, after tip start to look dry on the outside which is enough and this process is done. keep it on that vice for few hour or a day..

then enjoy u just have a tip that hard wearing not flatten easyly, play like soft tip, crisp hit and sound like a hard tip, and very very springgy feel n firm hit.

[Fairuz]

Oh one more thing, most of pool player called this tip is a Milk Dud!.. but belive me, this is not the same.. this is my own way modified a tip to make it good as im purchase a box of 50 Elkmaster everytime and using all of it, this process it make Elkmaster tip became much better, tip that have very low deflections when using side, super springgy effect, very very firm and solid feel and sound, play and grip ball very well like a soft tip, hard wearing and not flatten easyly.

[jonny66]

I have some very spongy Elkmaster tips, one of which I posted a video of, I will try this method and see if it saves them

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Oh one more thing, most of pool player called this tip is a Milk Dud!.. but belive me, this is not the same.. this is my own way modified a tip to make it good as im purchase a box of 50 Elkmaster everytime and using all of it, this process it make Elkmaster tip became much better, tip that have very low deflections when using side, super springgy effect, very very firm and solid feel and sound, play and grip ball very well like a soft tip, hard wearing and not flatten easyly.

It's pretty much the same as a milk dud. I make mine slightly differently, with a secret ingredient I'll not divulge. Had mine on my (english pool) cue for 2 years or more, with plenty of life left yet.

You can just bung them in milk for 24 hrs, then press for 24 hrs, results will be near enough the same. I simply cannot stand soft, unpressed tips.

And tips make no difference when it comes to deflection, or none worth mentioning.

[mikeyd100]

Can the milk be used for my cup of tea after that process lol