Are cues selling like they used to?

[cueman]

The thai cue makers cheat slightly as well in the way that they make their cues, splicing machines, shorter shafts to make them stiffer then dowel inserted then lengthened to the required spec. That is also keeping their costs and wastage to a minimum which means they can make top cues for a lot less than UK based cue makers.

Like all things in life, we pay the price of living in an expensive country and costs of living mean that our cue makers are unable to make cues for the price the chinese and thai cue makers do.
Problem is, the cues you can get now from Thailand and even China are good enough for the vast majority of players, even many top pros are now going over to many of the Thai cue makers, I said this would happen some time back!

My belief is that the UK based cue makers will struggle once the chinese boom finishes and eventually we'll see most cues produced in the far east. Sooner or later a top pro is going to start winning things with a maximus or Ton Praram and then the chinese will be jumping all over that bandwagon.

[rdsalt]

As has been said before there is a benefit to the cuemaker having a waiting list, more desirability for their cues and better resale value for the customer, and when you are spending a lot on a cue you want to be able to maximize your return if you end up not getting on with a cue when it eventually turns up. The ever growing Thai and Chinese makers are the big threat to the UK cuemankers, the low wages and material costs just cannot be competed with here even taking into account the shipping and import costs. But I can't see the UK prices going down much if anything at all, I really don't think the cuemakers make as much money as some on here seem to believe, the VAT threshold is just over £82,000, how many UK cuemakers charge VAT?? (or do they include VAT on their price and just not tell us) £82,000 is your turnover not your profit, all materials and costs have to come off this and you have TAX to pay so I really cant see how any of them are making huge money considering their skill and being the best in their business.

[billabong]

As has been said before there is a benefit to the cuemaker having a waiting list, more desirability for their cues and better resale value for the customer, and when you are spending a lot on a cue you want to be able to maximize your return if you end up not getting on with a cue when it eventually turns up. The ever growing Thai and Chinese makers are the big threat to the UK cuemankers, the low wages and material costs just cannot be competed with here even taking into account the shipping and import costs. But I can't see the UK prices going down much if anything at all, I really don't think the cuemakers make as much money as some on here seem to believe, the VAT threshold is just over £82,000, how many UK cuemakers charge VAT?? (or do they include VAT on their price and just not tell us) £82,000 is your turnover not your profit, all materials and costs have to come off this and you have TAX to pay so I really cant see how any of them are making huge money considering their skill and being the best in their business.

Insert into above

I really don't think the genuine, all made in the uk, cuemakers make as much money as some on here seem to believe

[Leo]

Insert into above

I really don't think the genuine, all made in the uk, cuemakers make as much money as some on here seem to believe

Will Hunt pays VAT

[billabong]

Will Hunt pays VAT

Will isn't a genuine, all made in the uk, cuemaker though. As Will, himself will tell you.

[Leo]

Will isn't a genuine, all made in the uk, cuemaker though. As Will, himself will tell you.

Agreed, I've said many times on here that UK cuemakers whomworks on their own don't earn as much as people think. I'm sure it's a hard and sometimes mentally challenging job that at times I bet they want to pick up a cue and knock it through a customers jaw.

[billabong]

Agreed, I've said many times on here that UK cuemakers whomworks on their own don't earn as much as people think. I'm sure it's a hard and sometimes mentally challenging job that at times I bet they want to pick up a cue and knock it through a customers jaw.

. . and if Crispian chooses to do that instead of making cases, think how mentally challenging his casemaking must have been .

[Leo]

. . and if Crispian chooses to do that instead of making cases, think how mentally challenging his casemaking must have been .

Cases don't interest me so I'll leave that discussion to someone else.

[crispian]

i am a 41 year old father of 4 and over my first 3 years trading as a business have made a total profit of £12,335 !!! (year1-£248 year2-£1,683 year3- £10,404)

this was achieved by working 7 days a week including most evenings and taking 2 weekends a year off, i drive a 2003 vauxhall zafira given to me through sympathy off my mother !

i currently owe 34,000 to family and freinds and i dearly miss the my £18,000 audi i sold 4 years ago to buy my lathe

These numbers are mostly due to my choice to invest heavily in stock and tools, and the never ending need to improve my setup !

i ask full payment on all orders simply to keep my waiting times to a minimum, as i dont wont or need the hassle of going in to years as this just means more harassment daily !

this also gives me the option of clearing all orders within a few months hard work should a decent job offer come along lol

[justf]

i am a 41 year old father of 4 and over my first 3 years trading as a business have made a total profit of £12,335 !!! (year1-£248 year2-£1,683 year3- £10,404)

this was achieved by working 7 days a week including most evenings and taking 2 weekends a year off, i drive a 2003 vauxhall zafira given to me through sympathy off my mother !

i currently owe 34,000 to family and freinds and i dearly miss the my £18,000 audi i sold 4 years ago to buy my lathe

These numbers are mostly due to my choice to invest heavily in stock and tools, and the never ending need to improve my setup !

i ask full payment on all orders simply to keep my waiting times to a minimum, as i dont wont or need the hassle of going in to years as this just means more harassment daily !

this also gives me the option of clearing all orders within a few months hard work should a decent job offer come along lol

I may be after a bespoke case maker!!!lol

[Byrom]

i am a 41 year old father of 4 and over my first 3 years trading as a business have made a total profit of £12,335 !!! (year1-£248 year2-£1,683 year3- £10,404)

this was achieved by working 7 days a week including most evenings and taking 2 weekends a year off, i drive a 2003 vauxhall zafira given to me through sympathy off my mother !

i currently owe 34,000 to family and freinds and i dearly miss the my £18,000 audi i sold 4 years ago to buy my lathe

These numbers are mostly due to my choice to invest heavily in stock and tools, and the never ending need to improve my setup !

i ask full payment on all orders simply to keep my waiting times to a minimum, as i dont wont or need the hassle of going in to years as this just means more harassment daily !

this also gives me the option of clearing all orders within a few months hard work should a decent job offer come along lol

Well lets be fair with the sympathy here - it was your choice to go and get married - glutton for punishment

[GreenBaize]

Interesting discussion and though the individual cue makers along with the likes of JP still have a lot of orders, I think the cue shops like Green Baize, Craftsman etc are not doing as well as in past years.

I think its down to a number of reasons though. I think people are now realising that buying cues often is never going to improve your game, many of these places rely heavily on regular customers who just love to buy new cues and these people have either found the one or have realised they are throwing money away all the time and are making do with what they have.

Also we cannot forget the amount of clubs that have shut down over the past few years and this has also got to hit sales. The majority of orders for most UK based cue makers will be from China, and that has probably reached its peak now. I think the prices has reached its peak point as well and I think we'll see a trend soon for most cues to be priced similarly. I think £500 is about the highest limit that most players would be prepared to pay. The global economy is still struggling and there aren't that many people with disposable incomes that will shell out such a lot for a cue.

Fact is the majority of players are happy with a cue for around £50 and its that market that has so much choice that its hard to be dominant in that area. You can count on one hand the amount of players in a club that own cues like Parris, TW, Glover etc. These cues will always be sought by the serious players and some who just like to show off, however the market for the £150-£300 I think is drying up now as I see a lot of cues available at this price that seem hard shift.

I can give you a little insight to how Green Baize Ltd is going ... and the trends in sale and direction we have been required to move in.
Green Baize is a small set up ( specialist business ) as I'm sure many of you will know. Myself ( Stu Green ) and Max Craggs run the business, Max has been working with me full time for 18 months now.
Green Baize was set up as a company 12 years ago ( I traded as Classic Cues for about 8 years as a part time venture before Green Baize ) we originally had 3 small rooms in a corner of a snooker centre which I stayed in for about 10 years, 2 years ago the business had out grown the space I occupied so I moved the shop to a 1200 sq ft room 2 years ago, since moving the shop to a bigger shop / showroom we have just about doubled the yearly turn over.
Green Baize is growing year after year and to some extent we are holding it back from growing much bigger ( I don't want to break what we have )
The price range of cues we stock has changed in the last few years, to be fair cue prices / production costs have gone up, but we have found the need to stock more better quality cues.
From our point of view... I'd say 10 years ago players wanted to spend was £50 - £120.00 for a cue, with players wanting a decent cue happy to spend £150.00 - £300.00. Now that price has change to £100.00 - £250.00 for most players, with players wanting something a bit better wanting to spend £250.00 - £500.00. Attitudes towards buying a cue have change a lot for lots of reasons.
Players who just want a cue and anything will do will buy off ebay or a sport shop, people who do a bit of homework will come to places like ours and Craftsman cues.
I still think that players who have cues custom made to order are missing out on finding a suitable playing cue for themselves, loads of players are happy with custom made to order cues but that's because they've not tried out a selection of cues to see if something else plays better. ( Individual preferences and feel vary )
Got to go times ran out

Have fun and enjoy ! the world championships starts tomorrow. .....

[crispian]

Well lets be fair with the sympathy here - it was your choice to go and get married - glutton for punishment

lol again

[GreenBaize]

Sorry forgot to say, all the main brands of cues we sell are Thailand made.
GBL, Maximus, Niche, Mastercue and we have an order of Ton Praram cues on the way soon !!!
All made in Thailand, custom made to order for us :-)

[guernseygooner]

I can give you a little insight to how Green Baize Ltd is going ... and the trends in sale and direction we have been required to move in.
Green Baize is a small set up ( specialist business ) as I'm sure many of you will know. Myself ( Stu Green ) and Max Craggs run the business, Max has been working with me full time for 18 months now.
Green Baize was set up as a company 12 years ago ( I traded as Classic Cues for about 8 years as a part time venture before Green Baize ) we originally had 3 small rooms in a corner of a snooker centre which I stayed in for about 10 years, 2 years ago the business had out grown the space I occupied so I moved the shop to a 1200 sq ft room 2 years ago, since moving the shop to a bigger shop / showroom we have just about doubled the yearly turn over.
Green Baize is growing year after year and to some extent we are holding it back from growing much bigger ( I don't want to break what we have )
The price range of cues we stock has changed in the last few years, to be fair cue prices / production costs have gone up, but we have found the need to stock more better quality cues.
From our point of view... I'd say 10 years ago players wanted to spend was £50 - £120.00 for a cue, with players wanting a decent cue happy to spend £150.00 - £300.00. Now that price has change to £100.00 - £250.00 for most players, with players wanting something a bit better wanting to spend £250.00 - £500.00. Attitudes towards buying a cue have change a lot for lots of reasons.
Players who just want a cue and anything will do will buy off ebay or a sport shop, people who do a bit of homework will come to places like ours and Craftsman cues.
I still think that players who have cues custom made to order are missing out on finding a suitable playing cue for themselves, loads of players are happy with custom made to order cues but that's because they've not tried out a selection of cues to see if something else plays better. ( Individual preferences and feel vary )
Got to go times ran out

Have fun and enjoy ! the world championships starts tomorrow. .....

Couldn't agree more Stu. Players who are not top pros don't get the luxury of a cue maker creating 4 cues for us to try out before choosing one.

You helped me out recently when I asked you to try out a selection of cues in your shop and in your opinion find me one that had some life in the shaft as I was fed up with receiving cues with shafts like a lead pipe. Not only did you get it spot on but you recommended the cheapest one of the 3!

Try before you buy is the only way. Not possible in my situation but you gave me the next best option.