Cue Weight and Grip

[Big Splash!]

J6 made an interesting point on his thread and I wondered if preferred cue weight has something to do with grip? As a ring gripper with a light to medium grip with the rear fingers fairly loose, I use a 17oz cue with a 18.5 BP. I've found oddly, that I can generate more cue power with this rascal and its 10mm tip than my other cue at 19oz with a 9.4mm tip. So the acceleration I generate with a lighter cue more than makes up for the loss of weight (in the momentum scheme of things) I guess. I find my timing better with a lighter cue. This is exactly opposite to what some other players have found with heavier cues and I wonder if it's because I have a lighter grip and fast fingers and they have a heavier, tighter, more agricultural grip; the pick it up and hit someone with it grip that Davis advised? I am in no way saying either grip is better per se. But I've noticed other players with lighter cues and lighter grips around as well.

Are you a heavy cue guy with a heaver grip, a lighter cue guy with a lighter grip or something in between? Is there some physics in this boffins?

[Byrom]

You ask a series of questions I think when a player starts out a lighter cue they are giving themselves a better chance to hone the right cue action as it helps develop better timing and feel for the shot I think - sort of frees up the arm and feathers. Later on you can move up a little.

I think a happy medium is 18 oz or just under for a cue but lots of cues have a differing feel due to the balance point for example I had a few Parris cues that where back heavy at 18 with the balance point at 15 or 16 and they felt heavier than a cue at 19 with a bo more even or forward to the cue at 17.5 if that makes sense?

There is other things to take into account with a cue such as density of the wood the taper and whip of the cue and tip. All pref for each player I like a stiff cue but not overly so as cues can play dead they need life but not too much and not too little.

Power from the shot comes both from the cue and your cue action but in the main it is the cue action and timing and not the cue which is why a lighter cue can free this up.
That's my take on it anyway. Mind you horses for courses some people will come on and swear by a heavy cue no doubt.

[Big Splash!]

Wow, a BP of 15/16 on a JPU is appalling if you didn't ask for that. So that raises a very good question about how he fixes the weight, splice or drill method?!

What you say does make sense to me because the weight of the cue is held more in the cue hand due to a poor BP. When a heavy cue is fwd weighted, the weight of the cue is more on the bridge hand, which adds stability in my mind and stops the cue rising up on shots (when we have a handle heavy cue).

[Byrom]

Who does ask a cue maker for a certain bp when ordering a cue?

Me and you perhaps and one or two other fussy buggers no doubt. You can't specify this and other things to do with a cue on a cue makers site really. A small number of cue makers make great cues but the only cue maker I found who goes into such attention to finer details such as this and aesthetics of the ash and then gets close to what you specifically want is Trevor white. Probably the reason he is so popular and the wait time so long.

[Big Splash!]

The BP is a critical part of the cue. If the likes of Parris or MW won't let you specify this (?), that's appalling when folk are spending a grand or more. Yes, getting the BP right does take extra work; and that's what these customers are paying for in 4 figures!

A lot of cue makers or cue doctors will reweight a cue for not a lot of money, maybe as low as £30 in some cases. You pay for what you get. If you want a handle heavy cue with a dreadful BP, you're gonna get drilled up the butt. Just as they do when they make the cue. Beware buyers.

[guernseygooner]

I thought the BP was individual to each cue dependant on shaft weight etc and you let the maker decide what the best BP for that cue would be.

Aren't you asking for trouble if you specify you have to have a 17'' BP when the cue's characteristics determine it would be better at 18.5''?

Which goes back to the age old one that it is better to go somewhere where you can try out a load of different weight/BP combinations, rather than hoping the cue coming in 12 months suits you

[itsnoteasy]

Me, I just can't play with a cue that's BP is to far back ,16.5 I have found is as far back as I like( tip getting a wee bit light off the Cush at that ) and 17.5 is far enough forward, but it depends on the cue, so I generally go nearer the middle if buying a cue without being able to try it.
15 ! I'm surprised at that Byrom, I bet it felt heavy, I know cue makers will know what weight and where to put it ,makes that specific cue have the best hit possible( I think that's what your paying for, their knowledge) but 15 ! Was it a one piece or a three quarters ?
Ton Praram lets you chose the ballance point and that was on his bottom range cue, and he got it bang on.
Ha as usual GG said it better lol.

[Byrom]

Well maybe they don't do it because not many people aware aware how this effects the cue or what they actually like.

Others might do this if you ask them Stamford n Jim black being two others for example. John Parris is not involved with making the cue from start to finish so no real point telling him specifics as it may get lost in the process and dusty sawdust mists of all that waiting time. I do know he does do this for some top pro players but perhaps they are more specific in what playability and spec they want him to achieve or maybe he gives them more attention than your ordinary Joe.

In my mind you might be lucky as he does churn out some good ones still but It's far more of a risk asking for a specific feel or aesthetics for a cue to one person who jots it down hands it to a guy in the back in the workshop who puts you on a waiting list for four years. That guy might not even be working there when your order starts. They should really ring or contact you at that point to discuss things in detail - the cue makers who take the time to do this are professional craftsmen that take pride in their creations and customer satisfaction.
There are less than a handful of those left.

[Byrom]

I think gg is wrong the bp is important to me in a cue and forms an an essential part of the spec of the cue.

If he is not bothered fine but if he used a forward weighted cue all his career and then got a cue with a lower bp at 16 that he had waited three years to get and paid a grand for would he be happy? - just because a cuemaker thought it would suit the cue or play better how would he know what you like best if they don't ask or you don't know?

Fair enough if you don't know or are not aware crack on.

Personally I like an even or slightly forward balance point and can't play with a back heavy cue. It is up to the player to get used to a cue. He is right however - It is better to try before you buy too but Some makers can get close to what you like only a few care to try.

[itsnoteasy]

Yep it's a tough one, rely on the cue maker or insist on your specs. If I had asked for say 17.5 and the cue maker said 17 would give it a better hit, I would accept that as I can't make a cue,so trust they know better and it's within my range,but if they said 14/15 I don't think I would go with that.

[Byrom]

As long as they give you a ring or e mail and chat about it fine - if you put your car in the garage and the guy thought it needed something extra he would ring you and you would expect him to. if you are spending 500 plus for sure. How many cue makers do this?

[itsnoteasy]

I don't know how cue makers work, if you ask for a further forward cue, do they go through shafts and pick the right one, that would suit it,do they just pick the next shaft in line and that's going to be your cue , so they make it with the ballance point they think is needed, or do they pick the next shaft in line and just make it to your specs ,with no input into how it plays or feels.

[ghost121]

I don't think any cue maker, whoever it is, should be trying to set up the balance point in order to achieve the optimum 'hit' against the customer's wishes. Unless, of course, the customer has specified some pretty extreme values that they know won't play well. In which case that should be discussed up front. Depending on the weight of the cue requested, I would expect the maker to nail the balance point I have asked for. Sometimes, if the cue is around 17 oz, this won't always be possible. If they have weight to play with in the spec, then it should be right. The other point worth mentioning is that many players simply have no idea about what balance point works for them and are happy to leave it up to the cue maker. Or they do not play at a level high enough to notice a difference. I suspect then that they will end up with whatever comes out naturally with the least hassle for the maker. Do people really think cue makers try out cues before they leave the shop?

[itsnoteasy]

I did Ghost, I thought they tried them at various stages.

[ghost121]

The ones I know go nowhere near a table until the customer gets it. I know smaller makers like J6 and Jim Evans play with their stuff regularly at various stages, but I think they are exceptions.