'Hand Made' Cues - Do they have any inherent value?

[Shockerz]

Definitely better than me at football, I was just local league standard and that's in Scotland where everyone with two feet got a schoolboy contract with someone or other.

Ha Ha! I was a pillock back then and didn't even turn up to two trials or Pompey who kept sending letters asking when I was coming back, right A***ole.

Anyway, still niggles me so I'll leave that one in the bin, nippers eh!

What I did do was take up snooker so not all lost as I've enjoyed that when playing on and off for 30 odd years and met some great characters.

Not as good at snooker but have had some great times and still enjoying trying to play it properly!

[sanman]

MB How about you providing some proof that AD shafts are superior. Not hearsay or opinions but hardcore indisputable technically researched proof that they are instead of all the babbling about AD shafts/cues. Maybe then we would stop treating you as a joke.

Hmm, but you've never made a cue. Whereas Buffalo make an awful lot, including for Russian Pyramid. And they've chosen air-dried for their top shelfer snooker cue. As for AD not improving characteristics, feel free to provide some proof if you have time.

Anyway, folk have been having a gas while you were away.

[Big Splash!]

MB How about you providing some proof that AD shafts are superior. Not hearsay or opinions but hardcore indisputable technically researched proof that they are instead of all the babbling about AD shafts/cues. Maybe then we would stop treating you as a joke.

It's not hearsay.

There is scientific evidence to show that wood's structure can be affected by kilns and not in a good way. Steam damages the cellular structure. The timbre of the wood is affected and especially its resonance. Musical instrument makers have found this to be the case, in the sound the timber makes. Then there is case hardening from kilns, not a good thing to do to wood. Once opened, the timber warps and cue makers have to cut and rest a few times to remove the warp. But the wood remains inferior within the cue. And lastly, a lot of players like me, Ramon and some friends notice a better hit and sweeter feel with AD. Cellular damage leads to that 'dead' feel. Whereas AD has a livelier feel. Put 5 KD cues and 5 AD cues on a table. I will be able to separate them by feel alone.

Explain to me why Powerglide made their best cues from their own stocks of 12-24yr old AD if it was such a joke. Or why Buffalo and others make cues from AD now? It takes more time/expense and lots of know-how to mature AD properly in stacks and there is no reason to do it, if there is no advantage. These cue makers aren't daft. I've used KD in JPU, TW, etc, etc. And all the cues hit heavy and clunky. That's the nature of KD. It will never change, no matter how you plain and rest it.

The best and most expensive musical instruments and violins ever made are all made from AD. That's no accident. Would has timbre. KD it and you kill it. Resonance is very important in a cue and how the cue and balls react when brought together can be decided by this resonance.

[vmax4steve]

And the only player who got anywhere in the pro ranks with a Powerglide was Hendry, and his was maple and bent and according to you the maple that Powerglide used wasn't air dried, so where's your proof ?

Did thousands of kids flock to buy Powerglide cues due to Hendry's success ? well if they did none reached the upper echelons of the pro ranks twenty years later, there's proof of sorts that those cues didn't work.

You're only badgering away at this because you say you have three air dried cues suffused with your very own recipe magic oil and you have a bee in you bonnet about them being superior, if that was true then all pros would surely want and need one, but they don't.
A cue is as good as the person who's wielding it, not how the timber used in it was dried or whether or not it was hand made.

[sanman]

Oh deary me. Same old same old. Please forward us the scientific proof that AD shafts are better. All else is just a waste of time arguing.

It's not hearsay.

There is scientific evidence to show that wood's structure can be affected by kilns and not in a good way. Steam damages the cellular structure. The timbre of the wood is affected and especially its resonance. Musical instrument makers have found this to be the case, in the sound the timber makes. Then there is case hardening from kilns, not a good thing to do to wood. Once opened, the timber warps and cue makers have to cut and rest a few times to remove the warp. But the wood remains inferior within the cue. And lastly, a lot of players like me, Ramon and some friends notice a better hit and sweeter feel with AD. Cellular damage leads to that 'dead' feel. Whereas AD has a livelier feel. Put 5 KD cues and 5 AD cues on a table. I will be able to separate them by feel alone.

Explain to me why Powerglide made their best cues from their own stocks of 12-24yr old AD if it was such a joke. Or why Buffalo and others make cues from AD now? It takes more time/expense and lots of know-how to mature AD properly in stacks and there is no reason to do it, if there is no advantage. These cue makers aren't daft. I've used KD in JPU, TW, etc, etc. And all the cues hit heavy and clunky. That's the nature of KD. It will never change, no matter how you plain and rest it.

The best and most expensive musical instruments and violins ever made are all made from AD. That's no accident. Would has timbre. KD it and you kill it. Resonance is very important in a cue and how the cue and balls react when brought together can be decided by this resonance.

[billabong]

It's not hearsay.



Explain to me why Powerglide made their best cues from their own stocks of 12-24yr old AD if it was such a joke. Or why Buffalo and others make cues from AD now? It takes more time/expense and lots of know-how to mature AD properly in stacks and there is no reason to do it, if there is no advantage. These cue makers aren't daft. I've used KD in JPU, TW, etc, etc. And all the cues hit heavy and clunky. That's the nature of KD. It will never change, no matter how you plain and rest it.

The best and most expensive musical instruments and violins ever made are all made from AD. That's no accident. Would has timbre. KD it and you kill it. Resonance is very important in a cue and how the cue and balls react when brought together can be decided by this resonance.

Oh the tragedy of Buffalo laying down all that air dried timber, only for the "craftsman" to cut it to 3/4 size,
add some brass, and join it with a solid turned lump of ebony.

Now if air dried made all that difference to the feel, why would they do that ?

https://www.homeleisuredirect.com/po...ooker-cue.html

[Big Splash!]

How do you know it's not ash to the butt?

Joints, yep, I disagree with those entirely but it will still be better than a KD 3/4. :biggrin-new:

JP has some very old wood stored away. How come the pro JPUs play better than ours? Ask yourself that question!

Sanman, my proposition is that they are de facto better; that's the null hypothesis. You need to provide proof they aren't. That's how rational investigations go.

As for those criticising AD hand-made cues because they're machine using, hand made fakers - hahahahaha! Please, making cues on machines out of pallets ain't the mustard. I can't these dell boys seriously.

[jrc750]

....How come the pro JPUs play better than ours. Ask yourself that quesion .....

Err ....because they are far better players than us !!

[itsnoteasy]

Err ....because they are far better players than us !!

Correct, come on Splasher the cues don't play better than ours, the players play better than us. Any pro could use one of my kiln dried cues and spank nearly everyone on here, so would that make my cue better?

[ADR147]

Hmm, but you've never made a cue. Whereas Buffalo make an awful lot, including for Russian Pyramid. And they've chosen air-dried for their top shelfer snooker cue. As for AD not improving characteristics, feel free to provide some proof if you have time.

Anyway, folk have been having a gas while you were away.

I have made a number of cues. How many have you made or played with yourself?

[Big Splash!]

Err ....because they are far better players than us !!

& INE. True, they can hit tons with rack cues but Uncle John still saves his best ash for the Pro JPUs. Either that, or the JPUs the pros use are as pants as ours but I simply cannot believe that the pros would put up with pants.

AD> regular JPU anyday. In my experience. Yep, that's evidence. Neil and others sold theirs too, because they're pants. Dead feeling. I strongly suspect the pro JPUs are anything but pants. That 50yr old timber must be a nice luxury for someone.

[JimB]

Here's a few facts just for the heck of it ...

Properly air-dried timber is better than poorly kiln-dried timber.
Properly kiln-dried timber is better than poorly air-dried timber.
Both properly air-dried and kiln-dried timber can be used to make excellent cues.

Hand tools, electric tools or whittle the entire cue with a pen-knife, a craftsman can and will choose the best tools for the task at hand.

Just sayin' ...

[itsnoteasy]

& INE. True, they can hit tons with rack cues but Uncle John still saves his best ash for the Pro JPUs. Either that, or the JPUs the pros use are as pants as ours but I simply cannot believe that the pros would put up with pants.

AD> regular JPU anyday. In my experience. Yep, that's evidence. Neil and others sold theirs too, because they're pants. Dead feeling. I strongly suspect the pro JPUs are anything but pants. That 50yr old timber must be a nice luxury for someone.

I would probably agree with that, although I have no evidence of it , but it would make commercial sense to give those that can give you the most publicity for your company , the best you can produce .
I have never used a JPU or even seen one, but the best cue I have ever held was a Parris ( can't remember which one) plain ebony and maple 3/4 cue, beautiful feel and ballance and fantastic hit, although I only played with it for twenty mins, otherwise I would have kept it, and I had promised to sell it on, which I still regret, hopefully J6 will make me a replacement

[billabong]

Can't believe air dried Buffalo cue starting at £12 !

Those craftsmen must be working to very tight margins . :snooker:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buffalo-Po...8AAOSwHoFXse-T

[ADR147]

Can't believe air dried Buffalo cue starting at £12 !

Those craftsmen must be working to very tight margins . :snooker:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buffalo-Po...8AAOSwHoFXse-T

yep we can't buy the ash for that !