'Hand Made' Cues - Do they have any inherent value?

[Big Splash!]

The huge level of machinery in cue workshops from bespoke cue makers.

If the majority of the work done (and the shaft is very important) on a cue is completed using machines is the cue really 'hand made'?

Cue Craft will happily make me a cue for £124 to my specs. They'll use lathes, jigs, sanding machines, tenon machines for the ferrule; you name it. I won't care; I'll get a machine made cue to my specs, with a bit of hand plane finishing for not many beans. Is it then acceptable for cue makers to charge £300, £500, £1000, £1200 on a cue made the same way to the same specs?

Do you see value if cue 'makers' are using industrial processes. J6 is different, he's manually putting a lot into his cue and making sure they play well. I see value there.

[Big Splash!]

^ Cue Craft also hand splice the ebony for £124. Not sure how they finish the cues, with sanding machines or by hand?

[billabong]

The huge level of machinery in cue workshops from bespoke cue makers.

If the majority of the work done (and the shaft is very important) on a cue is completed using machines is the cue really 'hand made'?

Cue Craft will happily make me a cue for £124 to my specs. They'll use lathes, jigs, sanding machines, tenon machines for the ferrule; you name it. I won't care; I'll get a machine made cue to my specs, with a bit of hand plane finishing for not many beans. Is it then acceptable for cue makers to charge £300, £500, £1000, £1200 on a cue made the same way to the same specs?

Do you see value if cue 'makers' are using industrial processes. J6 is different, he's manually putting a lot into his cue and making sure they play well. I see value there.

Of course it's acceptable. The cue selling at the price asked, will define that.


J6 isn't different to any low volume cue maker starting out ( no offence J6 ). If he's trying to make 50 cues a month, then machinery is the way to go.

If he's a hobby-ist, doing it to see what he can do, then there's no point spending big on " lathes, jigs, sanding machines, tenon machines for the ferrule ".


At the end of the day it's your money.

If you want the best cue for you, you try hundreds of cues from £50 ebay old machine spliced cues, to £your top budget cue,
and make a decision based on what felt the best for you.

Some people however ( in the same way they feel they can't be seen in a Skoda ) want a cue that feels good, AND was reassuringly expensive.

Another group just want to buy nice things as they work hard for the money to buy them.




It's really up to the individual if he/she wants to pay big or small money for a cue ( or anything for that matter ). . . .

[ghost121]

I think you get what you pay for up to about £300. Anything over that and you are down to the name and location.

[denja]

I would not mind betting that some clever bod out there is able to dowload the spec of a high end cue feed it into the relevant machinery and bingo instant top of the range cue ! The Japanese did this years ago with both Gibson and Fender Guitars caused a bit of a uproar at the time,the thing was after a time the copies were better than the original, a company called Tokia was a prime example they got taken to court for their efforts.

[ghost121]

It's Tokai, and they are known as 'lawsuit' guitars for that reason. The main reason for their inception and success was that, at the time, both Fender and Gibson were producing very poor quality work at premium prices.

[Shockerz]

When I took up snooker again around 6/7 years ago I asked about with the better players and asked what cue makers I should look at, I wanted a handmade cue that had been made by a craftsman so with very little knowledge I bought what I thought was a cue made by hand.

I have been on the forum a little while now and have since learnt a lot about cue construction and the differing techniques of putting together a cue. Knowing what I know now I don't think a cue is hand made if the butt was turned on a lathe, the ash turned on a lathe, the splicing done with a jig and an electric plane, the ferrule cut with a ferrule cutter or also on a lathe, at least my cue was oiled by hand!

Now I know people will say well as long as it plays well then it was worth the money, I think the cues ok but will chop it in at some point to get something that doesn't have so much throw.

I am a person that looks into things a little too deeply but when I read hand made on the original website I think if this constitutes hand made then I guess everything is as it was cxertainly misleading to me.

We all have opinions and that's mine and I know some will say well what's the problem as it doesn't make any difference. Well, if it doesn't make any difference then see what happens with cue sales to a craftsman when they change all their cue badges to machine made, you won;t be selling them for a grand a pop. Yes, some people want to pay more for as they work hard and want to reward themselves but we all hope that you get a better quality product as the payment you make increases.

As Clint Eastwood said, opinions are like butt holes, we all have one (and he didn't said it better than that!!).

[denja]

It's Tokai, and they are known as 'lawsuit' guitars for that reason. The main reason for their inception and success was that, at the time, both Fender and Gibson were producing very poor quality work at premium prices.

The Gibson and the period known as the Norlin Years 1969-1986 was a good example when E.C.I Industries gained control of Gibson there was mass cost cutting on guitars and less hand work and finishing, the quality suffered.

[ghost121]

Right, and the same thing happened to Fender after CBS took over. Their 70s work was pretty rough. I am not sure we have the equivalent when it comes to cue manufacture because the numbers are smaller and we are discussing 'handmade' cues, something notoriously difficult to pin down as a term.

[vmax4steve]

Rock stars were looking for the sounds made from the original Gibson Les Pauls and Fender Strats from around '58 to '61 when not only the bodies and necks had a lot of human attention from the in house luthiers, but also the pick ups were hand wound as well, making them quite different from each other.
Neck profiles were slightly different, but it's mainly the hand wound pick ups that produced that classic sound, though not in all cases.

It can't be copied as it's not known how many winds or the tension applied that produces these great sounds, and to take the pick up apart would ruin it. Now pick up manufacturers are using the original alnico magnets to try to get close but it's individual guitars that have these great sounds, an original '58 sunburst Les Paul has just come to light that's on offer at over £600,000, said to have 'that' sound and to be one of the two originals, Slash owns the other one.

This is what you get with hand made, a non uniformity that can be exactly what an individual needs. No two hand made items are exactly alike, but that's also true of anything made from wood as no two pieces of wood are the same.
You pay your money and you take your choice and your chances, but don't expect a cue to transform your game, good players can play with anything that's straight and cue shaped, like Hendrix could play a guitar strung for a right hander upside down left handed and a guitar strung for a left hander upside down right handed.

As a parting shot I would say that Cue Craft aren't making anything in house that's hand made for only £100, they're simply looking into their large stocks of far eastern imports and giving you one that's close to your specs, which is pretty easy considering that most peoples 'specs' come within the standard spectrum.

[j6uk]

i find it easy to describe/think of something made by hand, i simply imagine a skilled craftsman calving, chiseling or molding a material to create something special and unique



old fashioned tho it is



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[Big Splash!]

i find it easy to describe/think of something made by hand, i simply imagine a skilled craftsman calving, chiseling or molding a material to create something special and unique



old fashioned tho it is



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I agree, and that does not include the excessive use of machines. Muscles is work, and that's why most cue makers wish to avoid it. But when you plane a piece of wood, you see and understand things you won't see if you slap it onto a machine. Know what I mean?

[Shockerz]

i find it easy to describe/think of something made by hand, i simply imagine a skilled craftsman calving, chiseling or molding a material to create something special and unique



old fashioned tho it is



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I know it's different to everyone, to me handmade is non electrical generally although I know this creates a deeper debate.

I like the description of,"calving, chiseling or molding a material" as it immediately brings that old fashioned craftsman picture to mind.

[winphenom]

Would definitely love to see handmade cues really made through pure hands and tools but not machinery. Better if its a full one piece without any insertion of weights like the olden days. Thats pure classic and class.

[Shockerz]

Would definitely love to see handmade cues really made through pure hands and tools but not machinery. Better if its a full one piece without any insertion of weights like the olden days. Thats pure classic and class.

When I started playing again a few years ago, I naturally assumed that was how the advertised hand made cues were made.