'Hand Made' Cues - Do they have any inherent value?

[billabong]

The huge level of machinery in cue workshops from bespoke cue makers.

If the majority of the work done (and the shaft is very important) on a cue is completed using machines is the cue really 'hand made'?

Cue Craft will happily make me a cue for £124 to my specs. They'll use lathes, jigs, sanding machines, tenon machines for the ferrule; you name it. I won't care; I'll get a machine made cue to my specs, with a bit of hand plane finishing for not many beans. Is it then acceptable for cue makers to charge £300, £500, £1000, £1200 on a cue made the same way to the same specs?

Do you see value if cue 'makers' are using industrial processes. J6 is different, he's manually putting a lot into his cue and making sure they play well. I see value there.

Andy Hunter makes his from scratch and has a few videos of the processes. Drill used for a wee bit, but acceptable IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLR...XGnsbNGwTYOWVA

[Shockerz]

Andy Hunter makes his from scratch and has a few videos of the processes. Drill used for a wee bit, but acceptable IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLR...XGnsbNGwTYOWVA

What a great fella Andy is.

Truly only interested in the wood and feel of a cue and not interested in mass production, such a source of knowledge.

If you haven't seen any off his video's I'd tune in now!

[tomwalker147]

The huge level of machinery in cue workshops from bespoke cue makers.

If the majority of the work done (and the shaft is very important) on a cue is completed using machines is the cue really 'hand made'?

Cue Craft will happily make me a cue for £124 to my specs. They'll use lathes, jigs, sanding machines, tenon machines for the ferrule; you name it. I won't care; I'll get a machine made cue to my specs, with a bit of hand plane finishing for not many beans. Is it then acceptable for cue makers to charge £300, £500, £1000, £1200 on a cue made the same way to the same specs?

Do you see value if cue 'makers' are using industrial processes. J6 is different, he's manually putting a lot into his cue and making sure they play well. I see value there.

I bought a cue craft when my old cue fell apart (joint broke). I chose Cue craft because it was affordable and I could choose the specs- weight, tip, type of wood, type of metal used on joint and ferrule. All this took 3 weeks. I'd much rather do that than pay over the odds for a name and wait in excess of 12 months for a cue. I've played with Parris cues and i've not been impressed with the workmanship.

[Big Splash!]

I bought a cue craft when my old cue fell apart (joint broke). I chose Cue craft because it was affordable and I could choose the specs- weight, tip, type of wood, type of metal used on joint and ferrule. All this took 3 weeks. I'd much rather do that than pay over the odds for a name and wait in excess of 12 months for a cue. I've played with Parris cues and i've not been impressed with the workmanship.

^ Great Post. And they'll do a full custom for £300 as well. So, a top player like Tom uses a CC.

Hunter is a class bespoke cue maker, the real deal. That's what I'm saying, if you're paying for bespoke, are machines acceptable?

[Shockerz]

^ Great Post. And they'll do a full custom for £300 as well. So, a top player like Tom uses a CC.

Hunter is a class bespoke cue maker, the real deal. That's what I'm saying, if you're paying for bespoke, are machines acceptable?

The meaning of bespoke?

Bespoke - (of goods, especially clothing) made to order.

So I would say that machines are acceptable for bespoke cues but I think what we are really asking is it acceptable to make a bespoke cue using machines and then call it handmade?

[Davebarker1978]

Hunter is a class bespoke cue maker, the real deal. That's what I'm saying, if you're paying for bespoke, are machines acceptable?[/QUOTE]


If you are ordering a cue and you would like the cue handmade from start to finish you should (prior to ordering) enquire as to how the cue maker manufactures their cues.

Not sure how many actually produce a cue without machinery (obviously used for joints etc.) But would say it will cost.

I am not too bothered whether a machine has been used in the early stages as long as the final stages of planing are carried out by hand and the wood has been left long enough to settle.

I have recently ordered a cue and couldn't really careless whether a machine has been used in it's production.

[Davebarker1978]

Edited my post due to a spelling mistake. Then spelt spelling incorrectly in reason for editing!! LOL! Blame it on POETS day, alcohol consumption and using a device with a touchscreen (no buttons!).

[Big Splash!]

Edited my post due to a spelling mistake. Then spelt spelling incorrectly in reason for editing!! LOL! Blame it on POETS day, alcohol consumption and using a device with a touchscreen (no buttons!).

That's machines for you Dave!

Shocks, apologies, I used bespoke to mean, well, very well hand made. Not just hand made, but the best that can be done.

Bespoke isn't imported shafts, imported ebony cues ready to be veneered, cues made by machine (no point, just call Cue Craft and save hundreds). Actually, Cue Craft do hand splice their ebony to ash. Though I'm sure a few machines will be used to get it rounded down and then finished after that. I agree with Dave, does it matter? Probably not, but maybe if you believe in the cue makers art to feel timber and make it work, especially if you test every cue like J6 does. Other than that, I wouldn't touch anything machine made for £300+, especially if the wait was 5YRS!

[cally]

Don't see the problem, anyone expecting a cue maker running a business to do it all from scratch is just silly imo.

There aren't many makers that don't use machinery at some point throughout construction. If any...

[Big Splash!]

Andy Hunter, J6, loads of cue doctors etc. Don't forget, these machines are a huge investment. A plane, tools and bench doesn't cost a tenth of all of that.

Cue Craft use a lot of machines no doubt, but they don't charge a bespoke £500-1200 and then have the nerve to call it hand made. Calling something hand made when the majority of the work has been done by machines is dishonest.

[Davebarker1978]

[QUOTE=Big Splash!;896238]That's machines for you Dave!

Touche!

[cally]

But then you could argue a machine is more accurate...

Machining lumber down to oversized shafts is fine as far as I'm concerned.

It's just to time consuming for a small business to do it all by hand, especially if they want to go on exotic hols 3 times a year eh!....

[Shockerz]

But then you could argue a machine is more accurate...

Machining lumber down to over-sized shafts is fine as far as I'm concerned.

It's just to time consuming for a small business to do it all by hand, especially if they want to go on exotic hols 3 times a year eh!....

Yeah I get where you're coming from and totally agree if you want to run a high turnover business, certainly understand the use of machinery to get those numbers out.....

What I struggle with is then putting a hand made badge on it to command handmade craftsman fees with the use of very few hands.

They may play the same (machine or fully hand made) but that's another debate.

If a cue maker uses all the bells and whistles machinery and has faith in their product as a 'player,' why the need to put a handmade badge on the cue, if it's makes no difference then leave it off?

I guess the meaning hand made has lost it's true understanding or we wouldn't be having this debate!

[cally]

They still have to place the wood by hand from one machine to other...

Maybe A badge reading 'Hand placed' lol

[Davebarker1978]

Handmade? How far does one go from tree to cue?

As you say bigsplash the use of machines doesn't affect the playability of the cue. This is down to the cue maker and what their selection of timber they believe will constitute a good cue.

I dont see the handmade statements being an issue although my opinion is that som cuemakers should provide more information in how they obtain their timber and in what form. Although on the other hand these enquires can be made when ordering a new cue.

I have seen on Dave Coutts website that his top of the range cues are completely handmade by him. Due to this he has quite a waiting list but if that is what someone wants it may well be worth waiting for.

There are cuemakers that state very clearly on their websites how their cues are made, I.e red plates and black plates. If people do some research prior to ordering they will get what they want but if they want a handmade cue, so to speak, they will need to part with a substantial sum for a cue that may still not suit them.

Regards

Dave