'Hand Made' Cues - Do they have any inherent value?

[Shockerz]

If I were to run a cue business I think I would do the following:

1. Sell other peoples cues with badges e.g. Cue Craft
2. Import a range of cue blanks and badge them to a brand
3. Make hand made cues and sell them at premium prices as each one would take an eon to make purely by hand.

I would explain on the website what each method was so there wasn't any confusion and the main steps of the hand making process so there isn't any confusion there also.

I think it's a great debate and I'm not that emotional either way (although the typing may feel different) but hand made anything suggests a premium and means a process in everyone's head, to me it doesn't mean many machines; machines mean speed and turnover but hey, we all have a view.

[Shockerz]

They still have to place the wood by hand from one machine to other...

Maybe A badge reading 'Hand placed' lol

Now don't be silly, people get emotional over this topic.

Now sit up straight all there'' be no tea for you tonight!

[cally]

Emotional.. lol

Get out more then. Jeez..

Ok dad, I'll sneak out the back window, jump on the bmx and nip to the kebab house when you sleeping..

[Shockerz]

Handmade? How far does one go from tree to cue?

As you say bigsplash the use of machines doesn't affect the playability of the cue. This is down to the cue maker and what their selection of timber they believe will constitute a good cue.

I dont see the handmade statements being an issue although my opinion is that som cuemakers should provide more information in how they obtain their timber and in what form. Although on the other hand these enquires can be made when ordering a new cue.

I have seen on Dave Coutts website that his top of the range cues are completely handmade by him. Due to this he has quite a waiting list but if that is what someone wants it may well be worth waiting for.

There are cuemakers that state very clearly on their websites how their cues are made, I.e red plates and black plates. If people do some research prior to ordering they will get what they want but if they want a handmade cue, so to speak, they will need to part with a substantial sum for a cue that may still not suit them.

Regards

Dave

I think that's a good post Dave.

I like Dave Coutts website and like the fact that his complete hand made cue is a premium cue.

When I bought my first hand made cue (as I liked the fact it was made with hand planes and by a craftsman) I was happy to part with the money, I just liked the craftsman bit.

Now I realise that it was almost completely machine made. Now I could have looked into it more but I thought by reading handmade by a craftsman I thought that was enough, I stand corrected now.

Nice post though mate.

[Shockerz]

Emotional.. lol

Get out more then. Jeez..

Ok dad, I'll sneak out the back window, jump on the bmx and nip to the kebab house when you sleeping..

That made me laugh thanks

Bmx! You rich sod. Had to make a bike up from the dump when I was a nipper and dreamed of a raleigh chopper (no that's not porn) and if I wanted a kebab I would have had to travel across the world to get one.

I'll show my post to the missus as I think I should get out more but she says she never sees me!

[Davebarker1978]

I think that's a good post Dave.

I like Dave Coutts website and like the fact that his complete hand made cue is a premium cue.

When I bought my first hand made cue (as I liked the fact it was made with hand planes and by a craftsman) I was happy to part with the money, I just liked the craftsman bit.

Now I realise that it was almost completely machine made. Now I could have looked into it more but I thought by reading handmade by a craftsman I thought that was enough, I stand corrected now.

Nice post though mate.

That is why forums like these are a great source of information.

The first cue that I purchased was a John Parris master cue (don't laugh) I just purchased it because of the name etc. I didn't even know it was machine spliced! I couldn't and didn't know the difference between that and a handspliced cue back then.

I understand what you mean when purchasing a cue with a badge stating "handmade". Perhaps "handspliced" should be used on some manufacturers badges?

Regards

Dave

[Shockerz]

That is why forums like these are a great source of information.

The first cue that I purchased was a John Parris master cue (don't laugh) I just purchased it because of the name etc. I didn't even know it was machine spliced! I couldn't and didn't know the difference between that and a handspliced cue back then.

I understand what you mean when purchasing a cue with a badge stating "handmade". Perhaps "handspliced" should be used on some manufacturers badges?

Regards

Dave

The reason we're having such a good debate is there's something to debate!

I don't know the answer that would suit everyone but a what you see is what you get description would be good, whether it be from the website or the badge.

[Big Splash!]

'Hand Made' for me is 50+% of the cue being made using hands and hand tools. If the squares are cut from boards using electric saws; no biggie. If the initial planing is done by machine; no biggie. But the second and third cuts(rests), finishing, and the sanding processes plus the splicing/veneers done by hand; crucial to me. Ferrule put on with a tenon machine; ok, you can have that.

There's a legal thing here as well. Trade Descriptions Act (1968) requires accurate descriptions so that consumers are not misled. If 90% of the cue work is done by machines and the maker says it's hand made; that's dodgy to me and may be open to challenge under the act.

[Davebarker1978]

[QUOTE=Big Splash!;896255]'Hand Made' for me is 50+% of the cue being made using hands and hand tools. If the squares are cut from boards using electric saws; no biggie. If the initial planing is done by machine; no biggie. But the second and third cuts(rests), finishing, and the sanding processes plus the splicing/veneers done by hand; crucial to me. Ferrule put on with a tenon machine; ok, you can have that.

I would agree with that.

[Shockerz]

'Hand Made' for me is 50+% of the cue being made using hands and hand tools. If the squares are cut from boards using electric saws; no biggie. If the initial planing is done by machine; no biggie. But the second and third cuts(rests), finishing, and the sanding processes plus the splicing/veneers done by hand; crucial to me. Ferrule put on with a tenon machine; ok, you can have that.

There's a legal thing here as well. Trade Descriptions Act (1968) requires accurate descriptions so that consumers are not misled. If 90% of the cue work is done by machines and the maker says it's hand made; that's dodgy to me and may be open to challenge under the act.

Yeah I like that as it sounds 'Right' and proper.

It sounds stupid that you should pull a tree from the ground by hand but from the almost over-sized dowel stage sounds reasonable.

It would be good if the cue makers got together and agreed what hand made was but to be honest, why would they? Realistically they must be happy with their own descriptions, it's our interpretation that are in question....

[Big Splash!]

Long has the 'industry' required an independent trades body that independently audits cue makers and verifies their mkg and claims. This would benefit those hard working, honest cue makers we all know. They'd have a British Association of Cue Makers logo and marks to put on their websites, mkg and products.

Hand Made Mark: A cue made in Britain with the shaft made in Britain predominantly with hand tools by the cue maker, splices and vaneers added by hand and rounded down by hand using planes etc. The cue is finished by hand. Joints and ferrules may be added using machines.

Hand Spliced Mark: A cue made predominantly by machine in Britain but the splices and veneers added by hand. The shaft was shaved with hand tools (plane), splices and veneers clamped to the shaft and glued by hand. The spliced cue may be rounded down/finished by hand or machine. Joints and ferrules added using machines.

Made in Britain: A cue mostly made using machines. The shaft was made in Britain from boards. It may be third party or made by the company themselves. The splicing was largely done by machine with some hand intervention.

*All shafts imported from other companies regardless of origin would not allow a Hand Made mark, as the way the shaft was made would be third party and thus open to abuse. Foreign imported shafts would be no no and bar to membership. The body would need to see photos, video evidence, receipts (from ash and timber purchases) to verify the cue makers were doing what they like to say. It would take time and cost but hopefully the cue makers would benefit from increased trade, home and abroad.

[billabong]

This seems to be gently curving round to thai cue-gate again.

[Big Splash!]

This seems to be gently curving round to thai cue-gate again.

I've listed an idea above, so that cue buyers could avoid such doubts. If cue makers wish to use imported Thai shafts/cues fro reasons of quality/economy/profit, that's their right and choice. But it would also be a right and choice for purchasers here, who wish to have a British made cue, to have confidence in what they buy. Transparency is needed; then folk pay their money and make their choice. Folk would no longer be able to cast aspersions at cue makers and cue makers would be able to market their products with confidence and clarity.

[billabong]

'Hand Made' Cues - Do they have any inherent value?

thai gate wasnt about the rights of cue makers to use thai shafts.

Where would the budget come from to implement and run, on a year by year basis, for your suggestion ?

[j6uk]

it would be simpler to understand what it takes to make a handmade, no we know that already. or rather what is the art of making a cue that is made by hand?

anybody know??




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