JP Mannock

[itsnoteasy]

Something like 1895\1900 to the 60's when riley bought burroughes and watts out.

Oh jeez that's a fair spread, is there ways to date them, obviously I'm guessing the horn and bone ferrule ones will be earlier and somewhere in my head I'm sure I have read the early ones had rubber butts( is it these that were the anti grip cues?) any other ways?

[100-uper]

Oh jeez that's a fair spread, is there ways to date them, obviously I'm guessing the horn and bone ferrule ones will be earlier and somewhere in my head I'm sure I have read the early ones had rubber butts( is it these that were the anti grip cues?) any other ways?

Although Mannock registered the patent for his "anti-grip" cue in 1891, I'd go so far as to say that all the Mannocks you see doing the rounds today are post-war Burroughes and Watts (1950s and 60s). They were still supplying these with horn ferrules (cow or goat) in the 1960s, as well as fibre ferrules. Personally I've not heard of any being supplied with brass ferrules, but I'm not a cue expert, so there might be some.

I always took the "anti-grip" reference to be the use of pearwood for the shaft which allowed it to move smoothly through the hand. It was developed principally for making the masse stroke and to facilitate this the shaft was parallel for about a foot from the tip. The rubber sheet on the butt was to help it to be held vertically and not too tightly. When it became manufactured by Burroughes & Watts as a general playing cue, the rubber butt and parallel shaft were dispensed with.

[itsnoteasy]

Brilliant 100-upper thank you, now his cue may well have had a fibre ferrule but I think I might have noticed that but I was distracted by the shaft as it was super smooth and liking maple myself it really caught my imagination that pearwood was this smooth, I don't know why it's not more popular.

[100-uper]

Brilliant 100-upper thank you, now his cue may well have had a fibre ferrule but I think I might have noticed that but I was distracted by the shaft as it was super smooth and liking maple myself it really caught my imagination that pearwood was this smooth, I don't know why it's not more popular.

I'm told, by those who know about such things, that it was a difficult wood to work and needed to be steamed during the manufacturing process. This of course made them more expensive to make, and a pear shaft usually goes with a top-of-the-range cue. I'm also told that pear wood had a tendency to bend (not a good feature for a cue) and was more difficult than other woods to get straight again. This might explain why it is not more widely used.

[DeanH]

I thought the patent was also with regard to the tapering of the shaft, something along the lines of the first part of the shaft (down from the ferrule) was more parallel than a usual cue, ?

knew I had seen it somewhere
http://www.thecuecollector.com/JPMannocksPatent.html

[ADR147]

Although Mannock registered the patent for his "anti-grip" cue in 1891, I'd go so far as to say that all the Mannocks you see doing the rounds today are post-war Burroughes and Watts (1950s and 60s). They were still supplying these with horn ferrules (cow or goat) in the 1960s, as well as fibre ferrules. Personally I've not heard of any being supplied with brass ferrules, but I'm not a cue expert, so there might be some.

I always took the "anti-grip" reference to be the use of pearwood for the shaft which allowed it to move smoothly through the hand. It was developed principally for making the masse stroke and to facilitate this the shaft was parallel for about a foot from the tip. The rubber sheet on the butt was to help it to be held vertically and not too tightly. When it became manufactured by Burroughes & Watts as a general playing cue, the rubber butt and parallel shaft were dispensed with.

I have seen them with horn, fibre, brass, and no ferrules. I always thought the anti grip was for pearwood - which is a smoother wood - yet they were also made with ash shafts! I suspect cue makers just like making it tricky for collectors in the future!

[100-uper]

Here are some other interesting facts about the original cue, not shown in the patent, but explained in later articles:

The idea of making the splice further up the shaft was to bring the weight nearer bridge, which Mannock thought gave greater accuracy and command of the stroke.

The tip of the cue was not a ferrule, but an extension of solid elk or buffalo horn, dovetailed into the wood. This was done on the assumption that the tip could be made to adhere far better than on wood, or any other substance (e.g. ivory.) Mannock further thought that when horn of a dark colour is used, "the proximity of the cue to the ball can be more accurately determined."

He was producing these cues right up to about 1916, when he had to leave his base at the Victoria Hotel, due to it being taken over and used as government offices. Burroughes & Watts, who he had been using as an agent, and who were presumably manufacturing them on his behalf, took over the patent after this date.

[itsnoteasy]

Is there an oldish pearwood cue I could look out for, that is generally thought of as a good player and I could get for around the £100 mark.
How do they play, is it a stiffer wood like maple?

[100-uper]

I have seen them with horn, fibre, brass, and no ferrules. I always thought the anti grip was for pearwood - which is a smoother wood - yet they were also made with ash shafts! I suspect cue makers just like making it tricky for collectors in the future!

I have a review of this cue, from 1904, which says "the Mannock cue, now much used, is of Lyria wood." I suspect that the writer has made a mistake as he also mentions it "being devoid of grain, runs smoothly over the hand." Could Lyria wood have these properties?

[Geoff Large]

In the 40 years of fitting I have seen many Mannock cues and some have passed through my hands
all of the cues I have seen and owned had a Horn ferrule
You can tell an early original mannock made one as the mother of pearly oval badge is closer to the butt end , when Burroughs and watts produced them they moved the badge further up to incorporate a pressed into wood stamp saying Burroughs and Watts at the base of the cue below the anti grip badge .
The owner of my local Billiard hall used to go crazy for them , I must have sold him around 50 mannocks over the years mainly in the 1980s .
I think in the old Burroughs and watts yearly sales brochure they where around £5 or 5gns a cue .

[100-uper]

Some believe that Mannock himself made the first cues, but I have what I consider strong evidence to the contrary, and believe that right from the start Burroughes & Watts were the makers. Ironically, I think that all the cues you are describing, with the shift in badge positioning, fall into the post war category, when Burroughes & Watts had stopped making their own cues, and they were probably all made to order by Peradon.

When it first appeared in 1891 a Mannock anti-grip cue could be bought for 22s. It was always the most expensive cue you could buy from Burroughes & Watts, costing £2 5s in the 20s and 30s; and £4 12s 6d after the war, in the mid-50s.

[ADR147]

I have a review of this cue, from 1904, which says "the Mannock cue, now much used, is of Lyria wood." I suspect that the writer has made a mistake as he also mentions it "being devoid of grain, runs smoothly over the hand." Could Lyria wood have these properties?

not a wood I know, I will look it up.

[Big Splash!]

Is there an oldish pearwood cue I could look out for, that is generally thought of as a good player and I could get for around the £100 mark.
How do they play, is it a stiffer wood like maple?

It has more give, like ash. But they warp more than Captain Kirk. They came in ash, maple, pear and hornbeam according to Andy Hunter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqFIJXh0SLM

[itsnoteasy]

Is it reasonable to think an older cue ,if still straight is less likely to move now, as it's had years to warp but has stayed straight, or does it not work like that?

[ADR147]

Is it reasonable to think an older cue ,if still straight is less likely to move now, as it's had years to warp but has stayed straight, or does it not work like that?

It does but wood does not play by the rules!