Why are pool and snooker cues so different?

[golferson123]

Sorry i didn't cover this point.
Ash is too rigid for playing pool. It doesn't have the same feel or elasticity to it. Maple does. Look when a pool player makes a monster break shot. The shaft bends on a curve. Ash simply would not or not as much - so there is a transference of power behind the shot and is more effective when using maple.

Also; there are several types of Maple, some more rigid than others. I guess you've heard of the old lake containing maple dating back centuries which have been dried out and used as shaft wood?
I have one but it is too stiff and rigid - would make for some great snooker shaft tho!

where is MB when you need him lol

[eihi]

Sorry i didn't cover this point.
Ash is too rigid for playing pool. It doesn't have the same feel or elasticity to it. Maple does. Look when a pool player makes a monster break shot. The shaft bends on a curve. Ash simply would not or not as much - so there is a transference of power behind the shot and is more effective when using maple.

Also; there are several types of Maple, some more rigid than others. I guess you've heard of the old lake containing maple dating back centuries which have been dried out and used as shaft wood?
I have one but it is too stiff and rigid - would make for some great snooker shaft tho!

There is a test to that determine a hardness of wood(lol), "the Janka Hardness Test which measures the side hardness of the force required to embed a .444 inch steel ball to half its diameter into the wood. This is one of the best measures of the ability of wood species to withstand denting and wear."

I would like to point out almost every study I found listed white ash at a 1320, the rating for "hard maple" varied quite a bit depending on the test where the maple was sourced I would assume. On the below chart it is listed at 1450(harder than ash), I had seen it as low as 1250 for "hard maple" then as you said there are quite a lot of different maples.

[blahblah01]

That isn't the relevant hardness though? Cues are made along the grain, and that hardness is across?

[eihi]

That isn't the relevant hardness though? Cues are made along the grain, and that hardness is across?

excellent point!

[the lone wolf]

I really enjoyed your thoughtful post lone wolf, I did have a couple questions for you/the forums. And some comments for whatever they are worth.

I have just starting reading about deflection recently trying to better understand the subject, which I don't very well. Most the pool cues shafts here that are sold as low deflection have a smaller shaft and tip size, an example being the predator z3 shaft which is 11.85mm, z2 was 11.75mm so I was under the assumption that a smaller ferrule would reduce squirt(deflection). I also thought of squirt and deflection as the same thing? Taper and deflection is very complicated and you are correct you could write a large thesis on taper and deflection and not have the answers. There is a guy who goes by the name of Dr.Dave, he is a professor at Colorado state, and he posts some interesting videos and studies about it. How spot on his info is I have no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4r0NSsxqo

Thanks eihi
I've met Dr. Dave at the Super Billiard Expo... Nice guy and really knows his stuff!
RE; The Video
Again there are so many variables to the out come of deflection / squirt.
This video focuses on pool tips. Which is just as influential on the deflection, as is the wood choice.
---
One of the reasons why I am trying to organise a http://nationalsnookerexpo.com is so that all the experts and aficionados can get together over a weekend and share ideas, concepts, knowledge and products. In the USA they really do this well. All company's and brands have the same platform to share their products and inform their audience. This does not have a bad impact on their products; if anything it enhances them as leading brands in the industry. Again, something I'd like to achieve here in the UK for Snooker and English pool.
---
Imagine JP, MW, Ninja, Stamford, McDermott, Master, J6, Predator and many many more cue makers all under one roof promoting, selling their brands?

[the lone wolf]

There is a test to that determine a hardness of wood(lol), "the Janka Hardness Test which measures the side hardness of the force required to embed a .444 inch steel ball to half its diameter into the wood. This is one of the best measures of the ability of wood species to withstand denting and wear."

I would like to point out almost every study I found listed white ash at a 1320, the rating for "hard maple" varied quite a bit depending on the test where the maple was sourced I would assume. On the below chart it is listed at 1450(harder than ash), I had seen it as low as 1250 for "hard maple" then as you said there are quite a lot of different maples.

Thanks of sharing this!
Now the future is going down this route - not sure if Snooker will but the pool players are buying into it...
http://www.predatorcues.com/revo/

[the lone wolf]

IMO;
The only true way of determining deflection is by using equipment like this at the start of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AENJxqR0g48

This takes away the human element - consistent and accurate on each shot.

[eihi]

I know a few cue manufactures here use something like that with the mechanical arm, Bob Meucci is the first that comes to mind.
They don't use it in this video, but you can see the machine, that video is just a advertisement so not worth watching.

[eihi]

Thanks of sharing this!
Now the future is going down this route - not sure if Snooker will but the pool players are buying into it...
http://www.predatorcues.com/revo/

I am trying to find a test that measures the flexibility of wood, but haven't seen anything, if you guys know of anything please share

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Thanks eihi
I've met Dr. Dave at the Super Billiard Expo... Nice guy and really knows his stuff!
RE; The Video
Again there are so many variables to the out come of deflection / squirt.
This video focuses on pool tips. Which is just as influential on the deflection, as is the wood choice.
---
One of the reasons why I am trying to organise a http://nationalsnookerexpo.com is so that all the experts and aficionados can get together over a weekend and share ideas, concepts, knowledge and products. In the USA they really do this well. All company's and brands have the same platform to share their products and inform their audience. This does not have a bad impact on their products; if anything it enhances them as leading brands in the industry. Again, something I'd like to achieve here in the UK for Snooker and English pool.
---
Imagine JP, MW, Ninja, Stamford, McDermott, Master, J6, Predator and many many more cue makers all under one roof promoting, selling their brands?

That would go down like a lead balloon with most of the knuckle draggers around here, who'll snort and tell people to go practise. They wouldn't want the evil dr dave there, either.

[DeanH]

Sorry i didn't cover this point.
Ash is too rigid for playing pool. It doesn't have the same feel or elasticity to it. Maple does. Look when a pool player makes a monster break shot. The shaft bends on a curve. Ash simply would not or not as much - so there is a transference of power behind the shot and is more effective when using maple.

Also; there are several types of Maple, some more rigid than others. I guess you've heard of the old lake containing maple dating back centuries which have been dried out and used as shaft wood?
I have one but it is too stiff and rigid - would make for some great snooker shaft tho!

I have always found, in snooker and UK pool specs, ash to be MORE flexible, less rigid, than maple?

:biggrin:

[DeanH]

There is a test to that determine a hardness of wood(lol), "the Janka Hardness Test which measures the side hardness of the force required to embed a .444 inch steel ball to half its diameter into the wood. This is one of the best measures of the ability of wood species to withstand denting and wear."

I would like to point out almost every study I found listed white ash at a 1320, the rating for "hard maple" varied quite a bit depending on the test where the maple was sourced I would assume. On the below chart it is listed at 1450(harder than ash), I had seen it as low as 1250 for "hard maple" then as you said there are quite a lot of different maples.

Is there any test for stiffness, flexibility, rigidity of woods?
Hardness is a different property and not necessarily directly proportional to stiffness, et al.

[eihi]

I am trying to find a test that measures the flexibility of wood, but haven't seen anything, if you guys know of anything please share

Is there any test for stiffness, flexibility, rigidity of woods?
Hardness is a different property and not necessarily directly proportional to stiffness, et al.

Great minds think alike, lol

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

IMO;
The only true way of determining deflection is by using equipment like this at the start of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AENJxqR0g48

This takes away the human element - consistent and accurate on each shot.

Brilliant! This game has so much potential for technology.

Hope that robot doesn't pattern rack!

[blahblah01]

I have always found, in snooker and UK pool specs, ash to be MORE flexible, less rigid, than maple?

:biggrin:

I wasn't going to post that first ;wink: