Why are pool and snooker cues so different?

[eihi]

1. Smaller shafts, standard is 13mm, snooker is 10 but snooker balls are 52mm and pool ball is 57mm. So the difference in shaft size in relation to bal size seems large.

2. Different taper on shaft and different wood.(maple vs ash)

3.Different weights, pool cues are heavier I am sure to account dor the balls being a bit heavier.

4. The most interesting to me is, how different pool and snooker cues are aesthetically.

Why do you all think there is such a huge difference in how cues are designed, especially aesthetically. Anyone ever use their snooker cue on a pool table. Or their pool cue on a snooker table? Which cues do you think are prettier?

[travisbickle]

Don't play American pool that much, if at all, but I've always wondered why American pool players prefer 2 piece cues?

[Ninja.cues]

For a start, I would recommend using you snooker cue on an American pool table as I've seen a ferrule get mushroomed before.
As the brass ferrule couldn't take it...
American cues are starting to be spliced something like snooker cues but a lot more fancy.
Nothing new as they did the same thing with antiques over there, seem to like the more ornate styles....

Ash just didn't take off and all seem to be maple but would be interesting to find out why?

[DeanH]

I think you meant

For a start, I would not recommend using you snooker cue ...

[Ninja.cues]

I think you meant

Thanks Dean...

Joy's of being dyslexic... Not seeing what I want to write lol

[DeanH]

Why are pool and snooker cues so different?

many many years ago I had a friend who just could not spell correctly, of course in those days he was just put down as "dumb" or slow by the teachers as nothing was known about dyslexia etc. in mainstream schools, he just thought he was dumb - of course he was not
He was in his 50s when he found out eventually he had dyslexia and something else (I forget).

[the lone wolf]

Firstly. American Pool at pro level requires more accuracy when making certain shots than in Snooker. As we know, in snooker the player rarely has to commit themselves to make position on one particular ball especially when there is more than one red on the table. American pool is a rotational game (especially 9&10ball) where the player HAS to take each ball in sequence - these sequential patterns can leave very tricky shots and requires a whole love of creative thought - more so than in snooker.

With that in mind I will try to answer your Ninja questions
1. Larger ferrule / tip size is not completely related to shaft size (I'll answer this further in Q2). The need for a larger contact surface area in American pool cal only be appreciated when the game is played seriously to a standard of play. The majority of players in the UK are casual pool players and therefore have not leaned the rudiments of the game in order to improve. By improving ones American pool game, we bein to understand.
a) deflection
b) CB control
c) rail control
E.g. In American pool - when the CB is close to a rail - the player may not want eliminate as much squirt placed on the CB- squirt means unnecessary side. A larger ferrule 12.5-13mm will do this successfully- anything below and the player may have to think about controls squirt.

2. TAPER - A science unto its own
All elite cue makers have there own shaft taper. My particular cue master (sadly not with us anymore) spent 3 years developing his own tapered engineered cue shaft.
The American use the loop bridge, which leads to why they use tapered shafts.
E.g. A McDermott (the largest cue maker in the USA) shaft is tapered in such a deliberate fashion; it is easier and feel more natural using the loop bridge compared to our snooker open bridge. This is intentional - so again, appreciation of tapers can only be appreciated when a players skill set reaches a high standard.
One could write a pheasis on taper and deflection and still not have all the answers. Which is why my answers will not explore defection - a complete subject area of its own!

3. Yes correct! Pool cues are heavier because the balls are heavier. One can use an ordinary snooker cue to play pool, but on every shot there is a feel that the shaft could crack at any given time. So would one really use their 9mm JP playing American pool? Of course not.

4. AESTHETICS
Since beginning to play American pool, I went on a road of discovery. My first playing cue was a £50 Olver Ortman signature cue, which hit very good - but it wasn't a player. Then I met new people and players whilst on my journey and learnt more of handmade cues and different inlays. A pool cue cover 5 aesthetic points, known as the pool cue anatomy:
1. Butt cap
2. Butt sleeve
3. Handle
4. Forearm
5. Joint

Pictures of the pool cue anatomy can easily be found on Google - am not gonna waste time trying to upload photos here...
All of the points can be studied and designed specifically to the customers choice. The great cue makers are maticulous in offering great choices to their customers.

I have several custom cues, all of which are different and personal to me. One particular cue was designed in 2006. As a life long Liverpoolfc fan, you can imagine I was still giddy after that heroic champions league win in 2005- so I had the cue designed with the number 5 as a conceptual influence. 5 points, 5 inlays etc... The cue also features family links and dedicated features. My joint protectors have my parents initials on them, so when they are not in use they screw together which I think is quite cool as they have been married now going on 60 years! When I travel my family is always near me.

That's just coverin aesthetics - the real technical stuff is below the aesthetic sleeves; of which all cue makes have their own way of working. So the pool cue is made up of two appraisals:
1. The cue structure, which to the naked eye can't be seen.
2. The 5 cue sleeves the aesthetically makes the cue look beautiful and sexy.

-----
Conclusion:
Stuart Bingham has begun to use a cue that is now offering aesthetic appeal as well as high craftsmanship. I believe there is a market for such a cue because the technical specification can be replicated with technical ease.
E.g. If I break my McDermott cue, I simply call McDermott who will either fix it or replace it. The replacement cue can be made to the exact specifications of the previous including shaft size and taper. The is is the wonder of CNC lathing... A debate and thread for another day!
---
PS
sorry for any typos, I'm in bed whilst writing this.... :snooker:

[Ninja.cues]

many many years ago I had a friend who just could not spell correctly, of course in those days he was just put down as "dumb" or slow by the teachers as nothing was known about dyslexia etc. in mainstream schools, he just thought he was dumb - of course he was not
He was in his 50s when he found out eventually he had dyslexia and something else (I forget).

I'm 50 next year and it was the same for me...
Didn't have an idea about it until years after leaving school...
Bonus is, they tend to be good with they hands and would say I'm better than some...
That's not about cues... More my own work.

[Ninja.cues]

Lone wolf.

I understand a lot of it as I've also played English pool for a lot of year's and with the old ball's and lighter white.
You had to take a lot into account.

Thanks for the info but still wonder why it's just maple...

[the lone wolf]

Lone wolf.

I understand a lot of it as I've also played English pool for a lot of year's and with the old ball's and lighter white.
You had to take a lot into account.

Thanks for the info but still wonder why it's just maple...

Sorry i didn't cover this point.
Ash is too rigid for playing pool. It doesn't have the same feel or elasticity to it. Maple does. Look when a pool player makes a monster break shot. The shaft bends on a curve. Ash simply would not or not as much - so there is a transference of power behind the shot and is more effective when using maple.

Also; there are several types of Maple, some more rigid than others. I guess you've heard of the old lake containing maple dating back centuries which have been dried out and used as shaft wood?
I have one but it is too stiff and rigid - would make for some great snooker shaft tho!

[Ninja.cues]

Sorry i didn't cover this point.
Ash is too rigid for playing pool. It doesn't have the same feel or elasticity to it. Maple does. Look when a pool player makes a monster break shot. The shaft bends on a curve. Ash simply would not or not as much - so there is a transference of power behind the shot and is more effective when using maple.

Also; there are several types of Maple, some more rigid than others. I guess you've heard of the old lake containing maple dating back centuries which have been dried out and used as shaft wood?
I have one but it is too stiff and rigid - would make for some great snooker shaft tho!

Thought there was a reason behind it and have seen how much they bend.
Didn't know about the lake wood but would love to try some... Sounds interesting.

Yes I know the are a few types of maple, been an antique furniture restorer for over 30 year's.
So have used a few.

[jamesg19851]

I use my snooker cue to play pool, 9.7mm tip, ash, 18oz. The advantage is I play with the same cue for both so I get used to the cue. Also, I bought an 8mm tip pool cue and couldn't really get on with it. I have a separate maple break cue with a 10mm tip to save my other cue from wear and tear and because it breaks the balls better as it's light, has a hard tip and is forward weighted.

I'm talking about UK 8 ball pool though, US 8 ball has larger balls doesn't it, so a snooker cue would be perfectly fine for that but I'd definitelty get a separate breaking cue.

[the lone wolf]

I have a combi cue that gets used when playing on bar tables in the USA.
This one cue will do everything from breaking, cueing and jumping.
It just makes life easier to travel with.
---
Pro 9ft tournaments I pull out my trusted McDermott cues.
Reliable and consistent every time!

[eihi]

Some very interesting posts, thanks for the insight.

[eihi]

Firstly. American Pool at pro level requires more accuracy when making certain shots than in Snooker. As we know, in snooker the player rarely has to commit themselves to make position on one particular ball especially when there is more than one red on the table. American pool is a rotational game (especially 9&10ball) where the player HAS to take each ball in sequence - these sequential patterns can leave very tricky shots and requires a whole love of creative thought - more so than in snooker.

1. Larger ferrule / tip size is not completely related to shaft size (I'll answer this further in Q2). The need for a larger contact surface area in American pool cal only be appreciated when the game is played seriously to a standard of play. The majority of players in the UK are casual pool players and therefore have not leaned the rudiments of the game in order to improve. By improving ones American pool game, we bein to understand.
a) deflection
b) CB control
c) rail control
E.g. In American pool - when the CB is close to a rail - the player may not want eliminate as much squirt placed on the CB- squirt means unnecessary side. A larger ferrule 12.5-13mm will do this successfully- anything below and the player may have to think about controls squirt.

2. TAPER - A science unto its own
All elite cue makers have there own shaft taper. My particular cue master (sadly not with us anymore) spent 3 years developing his own tapered engineered cue shaft.
The American use the loop bridge, which leads to why they use tapered shafts.
E.g. A McDermott (the largest cue maker in the USA) shaft is tapered in such a deliberate fashion; it is easier and feel more natural using the loop bridge compared to our snooker open bridge. This is intentional - so again, appreciation of tapers can only be appreciated when a players skill set reaches a high standard.
One could write a pheasis on taper and deflection and still not have all the answers. Which is why my answers will not explore defection - a complete subject area of its own!

I really enjoyed your thoughtful post lone wolf, I did have a couple questions for you/the forums. And some comments for whatever they are worth.

I have just starting reading about deflection recently trying to better understand the subject, which I don't very well. Most the pool cues shafts here that are sold as low deflection have a smaller shaft and tip size, an example being the predator z3 shaft which is 11.85mm, z2 was 11.75mm so I was under the assumption that a smaller ferrule would reduce squirt(deflection). I also thought of squirt and deflection as the same thing? Taper and deflection is very complicated and you are correct you could write a large thesis on taper and deflection and not have the answers. There is a guy who goes by the name of Dr.Dave, he is a professor at Colorado state, and he posts some interesting videos and studies about it. How spot on his info is I have no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4r0NSsxqo