"Kinver Cues" My Experience

[acehead01]

I recently sold my Tom Classic custom cue to friend and was in market for a new cue.
After talking to several Cue Makers and vendors, i decided to look into kinver cues.
I contacted Norman Jennings and requested the Cue for follwing specs.
58.5" or 59", 18.25oz, 9.6mm tip, really stiff shaft.
i contacted Kinver cues via Website, email and Facebook.
Norman Jennings (Kinver)stated that he does not have any 59" or 58.5" but one in 58", with the same specifications.
Price was agreed, which was immediately paid via Paypal. (I do not mind paying, Darren Lowe can attest to this).
He asked me which cue, i wanted to buy. i stated the one that fits all the other specs except for the lenght which was 58".
I requested the pictures of the cue. he sent me the picture of a cue, that he has advertised on his website. i agreed.
here are the pictures, i received.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...Rhd2hyeGY2VFhv
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...ZTR3NydGNmTWhF
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...AwV2c2aXNKUEJJ

A few days later, he sent the cue with case via UKParcel. the Cue arrived a week later.
I put the package on the side, since I got really busy at work.
Lst Friday, I decided to open the package and look at the cue. The cue was not even the one he had sent pictures of.
The picture in the picture has 5-7 arrows (as you can see in the pictures above), this one has 2 at the most. I like to use arrows for sight. i have done that all the time i have been playing.
I disregarded that for the moment and looked at the Tip. its was not 9.6 but 9.5 or even smaller. I am not a professional but i am not a novice either.
Over the years, i have bought several dozen cues for myself and my friends from all over the world. I once had a very good relationship with Mastercue in the earlyt 2000s.
bought at least 2 dozen custom cues for my friends.
I hit a few shots. even at a medium pace, i can see the cue that the cue is not really stiff. Medium stiff at best. i can see the cue deflecting on long stop shots.
Last friday, I contacted Norman Jennings again via facebook asking him why i was sent a cue that does not only look like the one in the picture but does not have most of the specs
that I requested for. he requested the pictures of the cues that I have received.
I sent him these pictures.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xG...Gu7cbTnC_HAY1q
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bx...IQFsG0ehb64dhl
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1H2...yqRvakuDT4l861
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Tp...x-igR-LhRVDk8j


He stated that in UK, that is considered a Stiff shaft. (I asked for really stiff not just Stiff). I asked why I was not even sent the cue in the picture and
whether he just sent me a picture from the site. this is what he sent me via facebook. i will let you decide.

"Hello Zeb,
yes the picture was the one used on the website, you had not decided on a cue at that point. all cues will deflect when hit too hard.
If you don't like the cue I am sure you can sell it on to someone who it would suit better. Norman"

I replid back with this
"Norman,
That was not the point. Wheni asked you to send me the pictures of the cue, it was meant to send to pictures of the cue i will be receiving. That is pretty much standard with all cue sellers.
I have bought several cues from all over the world.
This is not my first time.
When i stated that i wanted a really stiff shaft, if you did not have it, you could have said, i dont have it. I dont sell stuff that even i am not satisfied with.
Since i now know what kind of service I will be receiving, I will no longer bother you."

I can no longer afford to send this cue back via Postage (Cost 60-80 dollars). I can at least reuse the box and will be looking for another cue.
I just wanted to share my experience in case it helps anyone.

Zeb
Houston, TX USA

[jrc750]

Very bad customer service that.
Ask for a partial refund

[thai_son22]

that is very bad indeed if how you are saying it exactly how it is. but then i suspect cue companies like kinver dont get very far anyway

[Mark187187]

As you paid via paypal, open a case with them. They'll get your money back without too much fuss. I would put the case in on the basis that the cue doesn't match the photos, as paypal probably aren't going to issue a refund on the basis of how stiff it is without something quantifiable.

[jrc750]

I'm wondering if it's paypal gift he's paid by, hopefully not but lots of people do especially when dealing with someone you think you can trust

[Ninja.cues]

That is a joke and not the funny kind....
Open a case with PayPal for sure.
Anyone that deals with a customer like this is very short cited, as this sort of customer service will get round very quickly...

[acehead01]

You are correct. I used the Family and friends option to pay. that was a huge mistake on my part.

[qc2]

i seem to remember them being a member on here introducing the brand

[Mellow Yellow]

You are correct. I used the Family and friends option to pay. that was a huge mistake on my part.

oh dear! why on earth would you do that???

[Mark187187]

If you funded paypal with a credit card you may still be able to get your money back by chargeback through your bank. Worth a go.

[Kinver Cues]

I have just spotted this thread commenting on a transaction that was made with Zeb, I will not make any comment other than the cue sent to him was the cue that he asked for and in my opinion the shaft was stiff. Snooker cue stiffness and deflection is always a matter of interpretation and in this instance we seem to have different interpretations.

Zeb could have had a refund with pleasure but due to the distance involved it was not financially sensible for the cue to be returned to the UK, hence I suggested that he sell it on.

[thai_son22]

I have just spotted this thread commenting on a transaction that was made with Zeb, I will not make any comment other than the cue sent to him was the cue that he asked for and in my opinion the shaft was stiff. Snooker cue stiffness and deflection is always a matter of interpretation and in this instance we seem to have different interpretations.

Zeb could have had a refund with pleasure but due to the distance involved it was not financially sensible for the cue to be returned to the UK, hence I suggested that he sell it on.

I think not financially sensible for yourself hence the suggestion he should sell it on.

Im pretty sure there is a big difference between 7 arrows and 2 arrows. I remember seeing this and thinking this is a little suspect.

Most of us cue buyers are pretty specific but i think the bottom line was, you should've taken back the cue without even suggesting he sold it on. it just makes you look like you care about your finances rather than standing by the quality of the product you are pushing out.

[anish147]

I have to kind of agree that when a customer describes what he is after as carefully as Zeb clearly did, then it is down to the integrity of the seller to acknowledge this or his reputation is in tatters.

An example is an exchange I've just had with Tom cues this week...I described what I was after (6 arrows evenly spaced) and the reply was 'I'm really sorry sir but we do not have cues to your request...we have cues with 6 arrows but these are not evenly spaced'

I think respected cue makers and cue retailers understand their customers and respect their expectations. Occasionally, where there is a potential difference of opinion, I think the seller should be able to clear this up ideally before sending the cue, but at the very least afterwards.

I can appreciate that it's not easy starting out but equally this industry is heavily based on reputation.

[Gazzac5]

May as well have ordered direct from Grand as that is all they are - another person re-badging Grand Cues - the list od these so called dealers gets longer and longer ......

[DeanH]

Grand Cues doing a booming trade in supporting UK cue "makers"