Turning down a Predator Z2 Shaft

[bongo]

Hi Burn,

He may not reply as he hasn't logged on for about two months.

[Burn]

OK, thanks.

Just read a section of the patent referenced in the pic posted by Notts. It seems the whole idea with the Predator shaft is to reduce front end mass as much as possible, so it is hollow for the first 5 inches, and I would imagine the walls are already as thin as is practical.

Possibly take it down from 11.75mm to 11mm, purely because you are hitting smaller, lighter balls. Any more than that and I think the front of the cue is liable to 'burst' when you clout the balls.

This experiment is now officially 'on hold'.

[poolqjunkie]

May be you can try to drill a hole on a snooker cue, to about 5 inches deep, plug it with a wood plug at the top, and change the ferrule to some plastic which is lighter than brass, and try it out? This should greatly reduce the throw.
You may need a softer and taper as well.
I have never tried this, but in principle, I dont see how you cannot achieve the amount of deflection or lack thereof with the above method.
However, I suspect the hollow section will take about some power of the shot.

[Burn]

Maybe someone can, I haven't got the skill or the inclination.

However, talking about what could and couldn't be done, whilst scouring about on the Googleweb I found this, thought it made for interesting pictorial comparision between the basic cue craftmanship as usually seen here in the UK, and what the Americans are doing with their gear in order to achieve theoretical improved cue performance.


Making an English snooker Cue...

1. Find branch 2. Cut branch 3. Take bark off branch 4. Whittle it down to a point (lathe preferred, sharp pen-knife will do) 5. Glue some darker wood on the thick end
6. Sell cue (irony warning: this is a joke, no offence is intended to our respected cue craftsmen).


Making a fancy American shaft...

First picture is of 10 strips of hard rock maple laminated together to form the initial blocks, the following pictures tell their own story.

Now you can't tell me that isn't beautiful work. 60 separate pieces of wood in a single shaft!

Makes John Parris look like he isn't even trying.

[poolqjunkie]

Making a fancy American cue...

See pictures.

Now you can't tell me that isn't beautiful work.

Makes John Parris look like he isn't even trying.

Seems like someone has found a way to recycle unwanted wood chips. Very enviromental.

[Burn]

You cynic you

As already agreed though, irrespective of the workmaship, the OB1 shaft plays like a dead duck. No life, no soul.

A good cue is an intangible thing. When you find the right one, it is more like an extra limb than simply a bit of wood.

So maybe Mother Nature is still the best manufacturer, and the traditional ways of making cues are still the best ways.

[poolqjunkie]

It is amazing to see pictures of the OB-1, showing some guys taking that much works and steps to produce a shaft which hits so absolutely horrible in my opinion. But then again, may be someone will go crazy about it. It is a personal preference I guess.
These American cues are really going toward being as complex as possible. Predator just come up with the P3 with 30 pieces of pie laminations at the butt--with an ash laminated core, and two seperate layers of maple laminations--which is supposed to make the cue hit real solid. There is a weight adjustment system which can fine tune the weight to 1/10 oz or something like that, and the joint pin sits in a phenolic casing. I have not tried it ye so I dont know how it hits. I hope it really hits that much better than any conventional cues like it claims. That would be something.

[Burn]

The problem is always separating the marketing hype from the real world practicalities. I think this is amplified even more so Stateside, because in general terms I think 9-ball players will invariably spend more on kit. Not at all unusual for club standard players to carry around £1500 or more of stuff.

But a good cue can't make a good player.

Similarly you could give me the latest high-tech space-age tennis racquet, and give Roger Federer a frying pan. Federer still wins

[TheStranger]

Hey Burn -

I've been reading an Azbilliards thread about the virtues of low deflection cues and I'm wondering, do you have any updates on the Predator's performance on a snooker table?

[poolqjunkie]

Just out of curiosity, I went on to try out a Z shaft. It has a much softer hit than my snooker ash shaft. I am not sure if it is what I like.
Anyway, if I hit the ball with poor timing I still miss; if I hit the ball at the wrong aiming point I still missed; if I hit the ball with side but forgot to not make so much adjustment, I miss big time--the worst part is I keep getting tones of reaction on the cue ball. It is a shaft that gives lots of reaction on the cue ball, and it is very hard to control the fine slight stun. My soft side spin shots are behaving totally strange.
I felt like there was something loose in the shaft sometimes, it is not always doing the same thing.
In my humble opinion, it is something one really needs to make adjustment in order to get used to. Once a person has gotten used to it, may be it will be the best shaft ever, I dont know. I only know that I am not going to spend my time trying to get used to it, when my present shaft is really working for me.
Workmanship wise, there is nothing worth admiring in my opinion. It is a mass produced shaft made in China, with several low quality wood pieces spliced together by a machine, a hole drilled, with a very soft and easy to scratch plastic ferrule glued to the very end. The maple is obviously not high quality, and it is quite soft. I keep trying to figure out what the splicings can do to help my "accuracy" but I could not think of anything really except may be using many pieces of cheap maple glued together is stronger and more durable than using only one piece of cheap maple, especially when a big hole is drilled at one end?
Having said that, I can see how it could be a good shaft to have for 9 ball when lots of side spin is used quite often. But for my snooker game, it is not something I would use if my life depends on me winning a game. It is just not my cup of tea.

[bongo]

Just out of curiosity, I went on to try out a Z shaft. It has a much softer hit than my snooker ash shaft. I am not sure if it is what I like.
Anyway, if I hit the ball with poor timing I still miss; if I hit the ball at the wrong aiming point I still missed; if I hit the ball with side but forgot to not make so much adjustment, I miss big time--the worst part is I keep getting tones of reaction on the cue ball. It is a shaft that gives lots of reaction on the cue ball, and it is very hard to control the fine slight stun. My soft side spin shots are behaving totally strange.
I felt like there was something loose in the shaft sometimes, it is not always doing the same thing.
In my humble opinion, it is something one really needs to make adjustment in order to get used to. Once a person has gotten used to it, may be it will be the best shaft ever, I dont know. I only know that I am not going to spend my time trying to get used to it, when my present shaft is really working for me.
Workmanship wise, there is nothing worth admiring in my opinion. It is a mass produced shaft made in China, with several low quality wood pieces spliced together by a machine, a hole drilled, with a very soft and easy to scratch plastic ferrule glued to the very end. The maple is obviously not high quality, and it is quite soft. I keep trying to figure out what the splicings can do to help my "accuracy" but I could not think of anything really except may be using many pieces of cheap maple glued together is stronger and more durable than using only one piece of cheap maple, especially when a big hole is drilled at one end?
Having said that, I can see how it could be a good shaft to have for 9 ball when lots of side spin is used quite often. But for my snooker game, it is not something I would use if my life depends on me winning a game. It is just not my cup of tea.

Good post there, I have tried cues where soft stun shots are very difficult and all of a sudden positional play becomes very difficult and hard to control.

Looking at the Predator website, they make it look very good, and they make all their cues look extremly good, but you should only play with what you feel comfortable with.

[Wity]

I hear Predator ae now laminating their butts to reduce the throw further. Now if that aint taking the **** what is?

oh friggin software wee wee then hows that.

[Nott]

I don't think they have claimed theire laminated butts reduces deflection but makes the cue feel more solid.....not that I can testify if thats the case or not. Never tried them.

I bought a 314 and a Z shaft for my Schön cue (for am.pool only). Compared to all my other poolcues through the years the lower deflection was very noticable, and that without feeling whippy at all. I liked the fact that it was much easier to aim shots where you wanted lots of side.

It did come with a price though as the hit feels too soft for me, dead if you like, and that side of it really bothers me. Couldn't imagine using it for snooker.

I welcome new technology, but it can be expensive to try everything so one can sort out whats just hyped crappy gimmicks from the ones that got something.

Lots of people love predators, lots hate them. Personally I'm awaiting my snooker/pool 'hybrid' with 11mm tip from Trevor White to use on the american pooltables. Hopefully then I can put the predators to sleep :-)

Oh, and how does the experimenting go Burn?