Keiths,Trevor's and Mike's secomds

[Wity]

There's a cue on ebay at the moment that the makers (Dunns Cues) are flogging as a second. Nothing major methinks as the one splice is thinner than the others (thickness of splice not width) and it's got me thinking what happens to your seconds. Mike says on his site he used to scrap them but then changed his mind and said he'd sell them as seconds but like Keith's and Trevor's we never see any for sale.

Are you guys that good that you dont make mistakes ever? Surely not we are all prone to having a bad day now and then.

[poolqjunkie]

For a hand made cue, I think it is reasonable to expect some minor imperfections. For example, if a customer orders a one piece maple cue and he asked for a white super high quality maple shaft. A very nice piece was picked, and turned and so forth. As the cue was going through the final phase of tapering, a tiny piece of brown coloration appeared on the shaft. This is a great cue, with excellent playability and craftsmanship otherwise--is it fair to throw it into the fireplace because of the brown spot on the shaft? Perhaps someone out there looking for a cue would not mind it at all? This could be someone else's dream cue.

Or if someone asked for a very complex splicing pattern on the butt with all even points and such, it was attempted, and one splicing was off by a couple mm. The cue would have been perfect by the cue maker's standards if not for this couple mm imperfection at the bottom of one splice. Is it fair to waste such a good cue? Even if this cue was sold as a "second" I would imagine it plays and looks better than a lot of "first" by less capable cue makers.

Another question is "is it really fair to call such a cue "seconds" as if it is a failure?" I personally think the above two examples are completely acceptable. They are master pieces resulting from many hours of intense labor, and the "imperfection" only adds a nice touch of human craftsman to the cue.

On the other hand, if someone orders a maple cue, and receives an ash as a result. Is it acceptable? Even if the cue was sold as seconds? If someone asks for a cue with a traditional finish, and receives one with a very sticky lacquer finish, is that acceptable? I would say no as these examples display gross incompetence and a total lack of integrity.

Some cue makers might have stricter standards than others about what is acceptable or not. So, the term, "seconds" is quite subjective. What is "second" to one maker could be better than the "first" to another.

I think it is fair to assume that although Trevor and Mike are not perfect as no one is, they would not offer their customers anything of inferior quality whether it is "second" or not.

[Wity]

Note how Mike has said nothing, he knows full well I'm only fishing for one of his cues with a splice 1/8"th inch out for a tenner.


Wity walks away fom his pc.... squeak squeak squeak.. "Who says I'm a tight arsed git? "

[MikeWooldridge]

Note how Mike has said nothing, he knows full well I'm only fishing for one of his cues with a splice 1/8"th inch out for a tenner.

Wity walks away fom his pc.... squeak squeak squeak.. "Who says I'm a tight arsed git? "

lol...

i was gonna reply yesterday but i had too much on. however, poolqjunkie hits the nail on the head once more with just about all of his observations:

For a hand made cue, I think it is reasonable to expect some minor imperfections. For example, if a customer orders a one piece maple cue and he asked for a white super high quality maple shaft. A very nice piece was picked, and turned and so forth. As the cue was going through the final phase of tapering, a tiny piece of brown coloration appeared on the shaft. This is a great cue, with excellent playability and craftsmanship otherwise--is it fair to throw it into the fireplace because of the brown spot on the shaft? Perhaps someone out there looking for a cue would not mind it at all? This could be someone else's dream cue.

couldn't put it better myself. what i call a 'reject' tends to be based on the shaft changes as it nears completion. classic examples are the slight changes in the way the arrows/chevrons end up in ash, or maybe a small blemish that wasn't there, or noticeable, in the early stages.

problem is, i mostly work with very 'picky' customers, so much so, that maybe i'm too critical these days. certainly based on two cues i let go cheaply recently cos the customers absolutely loved them and couldn't see what was wrong with them.

i could see something, but it wasn't noticeable to them. and the cues were excellent in all other departments, not least the way they played.

Another question is "is it really fair to call such a cue "seconds" as if it is a failure?"

another great point. there is nothing more frustrating than finding something near the end that 'ruins' the cue. it's gone through the same processes as any other but becomes almost worthless once compared to a 'perfect' one sitting next to it in the workshop. no, they're not 'seconds' really, and they're not failures, but it's such a shame that an otherwise brilliant cue is instantly devalued by what is an essentially trivial and minor thing.

On the other hand, if someone orders a maple cue, and receives an ash as a result. Is it acceptable? Even if the cue was sold as seconds? If someone asks for a cue with a traditional finish, and receives one with a very sticky lacquer finish, is that acceptable? I would say no as these examples display gross incompetence and a total lack of integrity.

lol. criminal in my eyes...

Some cue makers might have stricter standards than others about what is acceptable or not. So, the term, "seconds" is quite subjective. What is "second" to one maker could be better than the "first" to another.

this again is a very astute observation and 100% correct. some people understand the bigger picture and others see only cost. it's a bit like when someone says to me 'i can get this type of cue for £100 can you match the price?'. the answer is no, cos on paper it may be the same size, spec etc, but it's NOT the same product.

my 'seconds' ARE superior in just about every department to the majority of other brand names on the market. cos they're made well, just like the 'perfect' ones.

I think it is fair to assume that although Trevor and Mike are not perfect as no one is, they would not offer their customers anything of inferior quality whether it is "second" or not.

yes. speaking for myself, and no doubt trevor is the same, i have always delivered quality. deep down it's a matter of integrity and what you believe in.

finally, wity, when it comes to splices, you won't find any of mine 'thinner' or 1/8" out

the general build quality is always spot on, it's just the natural wood visuals that can be a problem sometimes.

keep squeaking anyway, i'll bear you in mind if something comes up. but you should have took that stripey ebony i offered you. lovely cue...