Ash or Maple!

[nam1977]

As the title says,

1: What do you all prefer?

2: Most importantly why you prefer it?
In as much detail as pos please

This is to help me in finaly decide which wood I want for my new cue. Done a search but you can't search using the word "ash" as its under 4 letters (tried "ash vs maple and vice versa), and maple brings up all sorts of threads with the word maple in it. So I only found vague info on this, and I would like detailed feedback on the subject.
Did find out that maple is cheaper wood though, and stiffer.
Also I've played with many ash cues which flex under shot (even normal strength), which seems to push the cue ball off course, has maple got less chance of doing this as its stiffer? These are the kind of things I would like to know if possible, anything if possible to help me decide.

K the more input the better. Like they say, "knowledge is power"

Thanks in advance to all!!!

Nam.:snooker:

[CTquick147]

I think you're comment "maple is stiffer" isn't entirely true. I believe it depends on the specific piece of wood used, and how the cue is built. I have found many ash cues which are stiffer than the Kevin DeRoo custom cue I play with. In fact the stiffest cue I ever used was a Tom Gauthier two piece ash cue with an epoxy joint(if you're lucky enough to find one of these, you'll see what I mean). Maple is in greater supply these days, therefore cheaper, and more consistent than ash. Ash that is too young, or grown in the wrong areas can be unsuitable for a good cue. Ash that hasn't been aged and hung properly will change shape over time, causing bending and warping. My advice is, if you've found a very good cue maker, you can choose either way, but if you're ordering a "custom" cue from a web-site sight unseen( like an "Accurate" or a Parris") go for the maple as it mostly won't be as much of a gamble as an ash. If the grain on a piece of ash isn't to your liking, it will be too late to change it. Some like chevroned triangular grains running towards the tip end, while others( myself included) prefer nearly straight grain for ash, it's a matter of choice, and a question of feel.

[ste bed]

i do belive maple is harder than ash it defo gives you a different hit to ash as to a way a cue will preform on certain shots every cue is different i personaly prefer maple especially when its turned a nice golden colour with age and i dont like the grain in ash i prefer the clean look of maple it helps me focus more on my shots as my eyes start to wonder when i play with ash i start looking more at the grain than the shot as for maple being cheaper well every cue maker i know charges more for maple than ash. the most important thing is though choose a cue which you can play with and not just because you like the way it looks and sounds if you have never tried maple best to have a go 1st before you buy.

[nam1977]

Thank you guys,
everything I've written about maple is through reading about it (stiffness) thats why I need all the info I can get from you good people.
Also I love that clonk noise when striking the cue ball (doesn't have to be a hard hit), and hate that dead thud noise. Which noise does the maple shaft create? Or is that to do with the tip, because I do hear it from the ash cues but not often, and when I do hear it, normaly its a good shot/pot.
I assume maple would make this sound more as its supposebly harder wood. And the flexing of ash cues normaly happens when applying spins.
More info/details would be great please!!
And I've read that there is not much difference in both woods play wise, but at the same time it is said they both have their characteristics pros/cons. What exactly are they as its never really explained and just noted.

Thanks to all again.

The more knowledge the netter!

[potted]

The lawyer is talking a load of bollocks. it's not his fault he talks crap he probably really is a lawyer they've been trained for years to talk through their arse.

"I recommend only buying a reputable maker or perhaps an old antique maple cue that is straight and stiff, because maple can warp over time more than ash"

Wood will warp with changes to it's moisture content heat and of course weight applied on it. How can you say Ash is more prone to it than maple especially when the only cues that come with a gaurentee never to warp are mass produced maple pool cues?

Maple can be whippy or stiff just like ash...I prefer a stiffer maple because you get less throw.

Funny that , because the ultra low throw shafts by design are whippier, you said it yourself with..

by narrowing it out in the middle to help reduce throw

[KeithinFrance]

If you have always used ash then I don't recommend changing to maple; stick with what you know. I went down this path only to come back up it again sharpish! The difference between the two is difficult to explain, maple is denser therefore heavier, but what I found is that maple is less "forgiving", less flexible and gave less feel on my shots; however, the smoothness of maple is very pleasing and the lack of a visible grain can be useful if you don't like ash grain patterns.
If you have tried maple and like the smoothness then a good idea is to ask Trevor White to build you an ash cue, because his finish is so smooth that one of his ash cues is smoother than a maple cue! Nobody has a smoother finish than Trevor.

Hope this helps, even if it's not very technically clear, it's what I feel and that's what it's all about!

[poolqjunkie]

I can see why they would have different harmonic because they are two different materials, so different feel on the shots.
I read that ash is a better shock absorbor than maple. So, I think the stiffness, which is just how much resistance the wood has against vibration, of ash should be higher than maple. I would like to see some stat about the bending strength of the two woods though.
Ash is being used in a lot of handle of many tools such as hammer, because of its ability to absorb shock better than other woods. I suspect that is why many believe that ash is "stiffer."
But the taper can change the stiffness of a cue so much.

[nam1977]

Thanks again guys for the info.
Unfortunatley it hasn't made it any easier for me to decide.
Some say ash, some say maple.
I am not fussy about the looks, grains or no grains, the smoothness of average ash cues are fine for me.
The important thing for me is the feel, which I can see is very hard to explain.
I'm quite a solid hitter (I don't have a very soft touch), I push through solidly so I hate the flexibility of some ash cues as it seems to push the cue ball of course as I strike it, even center ball striking.
And how do you mean by maple is less forgiving kieth? In what sense?
I have some 9 ball playing friends and they much prefer maple pool cues like the Predator cue, even when playing snooker.
I know Mike Wooldridge prefers ash as he said.
What do you guys mean when you use the term "whippy" and "throw", never cames across these terms before I came on here.
Now the price range.
I have a budget of £250-£300 next year.
Who can I afford with that?
Tony Wilshaw (what are your thoughts or experiences with his cues?) has quoted me £260 for a cue made to my specs in either ash or maple.
I already have 2 Craftsman cues in ash.
Any sugestions welcome!

Thanks very much again guys. This is a tough one because I want this to be the last cue I buy for a very long time.
So the more info the better still, until I am able to try out a maple cue for myself.

Nam.

[KeithinFrance]

Thanks again guys for the info.
Unfortunatley it hasn't made it any easier for me to decide.
Some say ash, some say maple.
I am not fussy about the looks, grains or no grains, the smoothness of average ash cues are fine for me.
The important thing for me is the feel, which I can see is very hard to explain.
I'm quite a solid hitter (I don't have a very soft touch), I push through solidly so I hate the flexibility of some ash cues as it seems to push the cue ball of course as I strike it, even center ball striking.
And how do you mean by maple is less forgiving kieth? In what sense?
I have some 9 ball playing friends and they much prefer maple pool cues like the Predator cue, even when playing snooker.
I know Mike Wooldridge prefers ash as he said.
What do you guys mean when you use the term "whippy" and "throw", never cames across these terms before I came on here.
Now the price range.
I have a budget of £250-£300 next year.
Who can I afford with that?
Tony Wilshaw (what are your thoughts or experiences with his cues?) has quoted me £260 for a cue made to my specs in either ash or maple.
I already have 2 Craftsman cues in ash.
Any sugestions welcome!

Thanks very much again guys. This is a tough one because I want this to be the last cue I buy for a very long time.
So the more info the better still, until I am able to try out a maple cue for myself.

Nam.

"Whippy" is the degree of flexibility in a cue, the more flexible, the whippier it is. "Throw", as I understand it, is the degree that the cue ball will be thrown off-line when you play certain shots, ie. a power shot and the rigidity of the cue means that the cue ball is thrown off the line you want and does its own thing. Complex, huh?
When I said that maple is less "forgiving", I mean that it has less flex in it and throws more than ash, based on my experience and the cues I've played with.
It sounds to me as if you need a solid cue with very little flex in it to accomodate your striking style.
With a budget of £200-300, you can afford almost everyone! Except top of the price range Parris, Hunt & Osborne and Wooldridge or anything too fancily spliced.
Concerning Tony Wilshaw, I've just received one of his cues and it's the classiest looking cue I've seen in a long time, and, most importantly, it was 100% on the specs! Really nice taper as well.
If you're looking for a custom cue, phone Robin Cook, Dave Coutts, Tony Glover, Trevor White and Tony Wilshaw and see which one you get on well with and who seems to understand best what you say and go with that one.
They are all really good cuemakers and nice guys to boot.

[potted]

Re :understanding throw, see : http://www.billiardworld.com/sqrtthro.html

The last sentance sums it up perfectly.

[nam1977]

All understood now, thanks fellas!!!

Thanks for the useful link potted! booked marked it

Kieth, that is very informative about the different cues.
I made up my mind, its gonna be maple.
I always try avoid getting in a position where I have to put side on my shots anyway.
And I think it will be a Trevor White (hopefully) will give him a mail.
Read a very (still reading it "Trevor White cues") long thread about his cues last night, and boy does it look good.
I hope I don't regret maple, but when I do get it I will let all know how I get on with it, and maybe I can be the one to give advice in the future.

Once again many many thanks to all who contributed! Love this forum!!

[potted]

Give Subzeer0 a shout he had a cracking tw maple cue for sale at £200 that i think he may still have.

[checkSide]

Trevor himself also a Maple on Ebay at the moment.

[nam1977]

Thanks for info bout the cue for sale guys.

But I deffo want to get a new one to my spec from Trevor now after reading everyones feed back about his cues.

Sent him an email (hope you got it Trevor) saying how much I can spend, with my required spec. So hopefully he will send me some pics of the cue designs I can afford in that price bracket.
I don't need anything fancy looking, the quality and craftsmanship of the cue is far more important.
If you're reading this Trevor I did initialy say in the new year, but I'm ready to place an order asap. So if you could please reply to me or pm me your number, to let me know what I can get my hands on, and how to pay etc it'd be much appreciated.
Look forward to hearing from you soon I hope

Oh its going to be a maple

[nam1977]

Gave Trevor an email, and recieved a catalogue back and a nice email.
So glad the ball is rolling now. Wil keep you all updated as it goes on!