Hunt and Osbourne or Mike Wooldridge?

[nam1977]

I reckon Mike's long reply to all those questions were answered appropriatly.

I'm fairly new to this site, and don't know anyone well, but I can say from what I read, Mike will have my custom in the near future.

He answered yes and he answered no, because he knows which ever answer he gives he'll get questioned regardless (as he also explained).
There will always be some one who you can't please..... ALWAYS (even Mike says it himself) on this long road of life.
Especialy when you make it big.

I know Mike wouldn't have got this far if his products were crap (no one would), cause word by mouth spread like wild fire.
As long as he churns out top quality products, gives top quality service and don't let s#^@t products out, we all should be happy regardless, because you will recieve a top quality cue.
If you don't like it, or if something was genuinely wrong with it, then return it in the same condition you recieved it. Only if it gets refused, no alternatives given, or no refund, then you have an argument and a case with a leg to stand on.
But I haven't read anything like that on here concerning Mikes cues yet.

I've read alot of Mikes post and can't recall one time he states he IS the best cue maker in the world, only stated by people who have experienced or bought his cues.

And he's site is so helpful and informative if you browse it.
Plus he also states what kind of character he is clearly for all to see, a none BS'ter, no messing about type of guy (bet he had his fare share of time wasters in the past).
So I wasn't surprised to see that kind of reply.

I'm not backing anyone, just keeping an open mind so please don't grill me.

And yes I read this thread from the start.

Who wants a game :snooker: <--- this dude has better cue action than me

[JP1]

I think you have pretty much answered all the questions Mike, except the important one, are you making the cues or are they substantially made in Asia? regardless of what is posted here and I am not sure how many post under different ID's to sway opinion one way or other but the facts remain, and they are;

It is not illegal to offer a product and charge money for it in our society, it's called business, that has never been the point, another blogger suggested that he likes to be able to afford nice things like Hermes etc and does not care where they are made or by whom, that is also fair and entirely his choice.
What we need to look at though is what actually constitutes quality and brand names and what are charalatans who trade on their success and hard work, and I make no inference here that you are one or the other Mike, it's a subject that would fill a book, in short take Rolex and Hermes if you like, both assure the customer 100% that ALL their products are made by them, if they are not they state made for them to their specification, and those who choose to buy their products do so in that knowledge, we must know what quality is, how it is defined, and how it is marketed, to be able to compare it to cheap copies, a 20 pound Rolex copy will tell the time as well as the original likewise a 20 pound Hermes copy handbag will do the same job as the original, however both brand names and many others that have been mentioned here are copyright and protected, which means you offer and sell the copies thereof at a risk of being actioned at law.
No such situation exists with snooker cues, they are basically the same from when Peradon first made the handspliced cue, with certain alterations and additions, no cue maker can claim patent rights or copyright for the cues he makes and sells, and costs are reflective of material, labour and profit margin, which has always been 30/30/30 roughly. John Parris for example and I am not advocating that he is better or worse then any other top cue maker in the UK, it's just that he is better known if you like then the others, I dont think anyone would argue with that, now John purchases his raw materials locally, he pays his manufacturing cost and he adds his margin, his website offers cues for around 270 + pounds which does not seem excessive in todays market, cue makers like Dave Brown buy in bulk with a sligthly lower profit margin and hence can offer a cheaper product.
Where business ethics come in, John Parris is open and honest about his business, he tells his customers that all his cues are 100% made in his workshop in London by his employees from raw material he sources himself, he is adament about that, it's important to him and his reputation that his customers know, that is why he puts it on his web site. Mike, YOU are the one who claims on your website to be the best cuemaker in the world, no one you say makes better cues, nothing wrong with blowing your own trumpet, however if you are keen to let everyone know that YOU are the best, why then refuse to cathegorically confirm that?? it is very simple, you either make the cues you sell 100% in your workshop, shed, grarage, home whatever from raw materials you have selected, or you do not, if the cues are partially or substantially made by someone else why not be honest enough to say so, nothing wrong with saying they were made to your specification,and are hand finished by you, do you not see the difference here??

Finally I dont take kindly to curt missives instructing me to obey, I have not posted any shipping slips or the likes on here to support what I am saying, but let noone be in any doubt that I will.
Honesty is the best policy.

[JP1]

Hi

Cant anyone read the comments correctly??

No one is "bagging" anyone and no one is suggesting that the cues sold are crap.

Let me put this to you nam1977, suppose you are looking for a snooker cue, you want good quality, you browse the net and come across a website like Mikes, you like the cues you see, you like what you read so you fork out the requested payment and buy one, the cue you receive is nice every one is happy, business transaction pure and simple, well yes and no;

Ask yourself why did you choose to buy from the web site you have, what was it that swayed you, was it the claims made on the site or was it the claims made by people who allegedly bought and own cues from that site ? I am sure you do realize that promotion can take all kind of shapes, the only opinion that really matters is yours, because you paid the money.

Now let me put to you if you would be equally ebullient if you learned that the website did not actually make the cue you paid say 600 pounds for but bought the cue from asia for 25 pounds and onsold it to you for 600 pounds, and if you learned that all they did to the cue that was made by a third party for the said 25pounds was to fit a logo disc to deceive you where the cue originally came from and maybe put the cue into a polishing machine using a combo bee/orange and carnuba wax to get a mirror finish and then claim the finished product to be the fruit of their years of experience and skill ?

There would be nothing wrong or misleading if the seller advised you that you are buying an asian cue that was finished by him to his standards, but the law requires that you have that information BEFORE you make the purchase.

Would you be happy to know that you have been duped and that you could have bought the same cue for 25 + whatever postage etc. is applicable from asia direct ?

There is a line where business finishes and misrepresentation begins, prices of any product are governed by their respective production costs inherent to the country they are produced in, in other words if it costs an English cue manufacturer 150 pounds to produce a cue, which he then marks up as he is entitled to some profit, arrives at a selling price of say 210 pounds, imagine you are that manufacturer, how would you feel if someone came along bought the finished product in asia for 20 pounds and sold it in your market for 210 pounds?? the quality of the sold product is totally irrelevant, the ethics of it however is very relevant, and those on here that say they dont care where the product is made, they are only interested in the quality of it miss the point totally, or are re sellers and hope to profit by supporting the seller in some way, you can use any brand name you like, you will find that on every item sold, be it a boss shirt an I Pod a computer a camera or whatever the country of origin is listed, why?? because the law demands it, you may not be aware but as a consumer you have rights, and to know where the product you are buying was made, partially or substantially is one such right, make your own inquiries with the department of industry and trade.

So at nauseum, we are talking about business ethics and product misrepresentation here, and not knocking someones product, do you follow?

Perhaps the best way would be to list the contacts who currently manufacture cues for cue makers in the UK and to let members order their own cues without those exorbidant mark ups, the quality question is easily settled, if the cues areno good you dont buy any more.
Look at Thurstons website all of their top of the range cues are made By ATX in Bangkok Thailand which also manufactures cues for Master Cue and others, the prices quoted there range from 170 pounds to over 300 pounds, you can buy the same cue direct for 40 pounds plus postage.

[pearce]

Being an unabashed Mike Woolridge fan, there are a number of points i'd like to make regarding this thread.
1. I don't know where British Indian Ocean Territory is and Mike says he doesnt sell many cues to Australia, but I'm one who's got a Pro 3 in the last eight months and it's a brilliant cue. As far as being overpriced, I had to pay an additional $300 Australian in Custom Duty and I"m certainly not complaining as I got a beautiful cue which will last me the rest of my life.
2. The service I got from Mike was exceptional and he has the right to run his business as he see's fit. If you don't like it go somewhere else, but don't keep rubbishing Mike on here.
3. I would hate to think that the reason Poolqjunkie has a ban pending is because he's defended Mike on here as the ones who should be banned are the one's putting the rubbish about Mike on this forum.

[totlxtc]

3. I would hate to think that the reason Poolqjunkie has a ban pending is because he's defended Mike on here as the ones who should be banned are the one's putting the rubbish about Mike on this forum.

Its a joke. When you get to 1000 posts you can have your own thing there.

[ste bed]

hi jp1 do you actually live in british indian ocean territory are you in the military or a civilian ?

[garyng147]

As a customer of Mike,I'm satisfied at spending 500 pounds for a custom cue,I've never own a Thai cue and won't change my mind in the future,even they're cheap.In my opinion,overall of a Thai cue(wood quality,craftsmanship,taper,splicing)is different class to a top UK handmade cue(Mike,Trevor,H&O),please don't challenge me,there are 1,000+ Thai cue in HK and 10,000+ in China mainland,I've also tried 200+ of them but couldn't found one which is "GOOD".

JP1,May I ask how many Thai cues you've ever seen or played with?
Have you ever own a Mike cue?
If yes,what's the problem of the cue or you're complain for?let Mike and us know.
If no,everything you know is just heard from someone.....etc,please shut your mouth.

Those Mike cue's owner were satisfied and glad with their cues,no one complain or said Mike cues is not good enough,even CC grade or Pro/Classic and Shark Series.Is there any fxxking business of yours?You can walk away and buy a 20pounds Thai cue,I'm sure that Mike won't mind.

[garyng147]

One of my friend has a H&O black plate,it's a brilliant cue.When he ordered this cue last year,Robert told us JP,Stamford and Master are doing business with the same wood supplier.I've visit a Thai cue workshop last year,and saw more than 30 JP cues and some Riley,BCE cues were manufacturing,Elite...Champion....Challenge....Sup reme...etc,the cuemaker told me those cues will ship to UK after 80% finished,maybe those cues were fake,coz John said all his cues were making inside UK.

Peoples said JP cues quality were going down,machine polish mark on the shaft of an ULTIMATE CUE...wrong balance...uneven splicing...bent and rough shaft...slipped joint and ferrule...nobody knows why,but I think I've found out the answer.

[jb134]

When I read this:-

thank you for noticing. it's hard to be reasonable sometimes but you have to always try to see the other side eh?

I DIDN'T REALISE IT WAS THE FEED LINE TO THIS:-

why don't you f*ck off you *****.

I have a Hunt and O'Byrne which is starting to show signs of wear and I have never sen a bad cue with Will Hunt's name attached to it. I have seen only four Wooldridge cues and I love the taper and found all of them to be top class playing cues.

If I was buying a new cue I would buy a Wooldridge based on the second quote above alone. I follow all the cue related threads on this site and rarely post but I have never, ever seen anyone type word for word what I was thinking before!

[ferret]

Right 1kawyer and Mike Wooldridge I suggest that you stop communicating with each other on the forum.

1lawyer I have not only read the private messages above but also seen the abusive emails you have sent to Mike dated 30 Aug 2008, seems to me that you are infatuated with him to the point that it is quite disturbing.

If I see any further posts on the forum from yourself regarding anything to do with Mike Wooldridge then I will take further action, take that as your first and final warning on the matter, I am doing this to stop further conflict, we have all heard your opinions now and do not need to hear them over and over again.

And in reply to your private message, quite clearly I do!

[ferret]

No I didn't take action for Mike posting up those expletives because what was said in those PM's from Mike to you was only what every member of this forum was thinking.

Get over it, Mike don't want silly people like you anywhere near his workshop and like was previously mentioned there is photographs of his work shop on his website, and if you think any of his cues are made in the far east that you are a bigger ***** then we all think you are already.

I got a better idea instead of you leaving the forum I will just ban you from the cue section on the forum, this will help to keep you and Mike out of each others way.

[atm147iwish]

1lawyer... just do as ur told... and stop chunnering on...
now go take ur face for a dump!!!

just having a moment...

[khizzy]

which is the best cue money can buy?

[totlxtc]

which is the best cue money can buy?

The one that you are the happiest with both in playability and price. No real actual answer to the question. It could be a £15 BCE cue, or a £1500 ebony and sterling silver handpliced cue.

[ChatLag]

which is the best cue money can buy?

A beautiful looking, perfectly made cue which is the perfect match for you and your game.