Ergonomic Cue design

[totlxtc]

As a few of you know i have recently pottered around with cues. But this has got me thinking. A cue is not a particually ergonomic or natural shape.

What variations of the cue have there been?

I know billiards cues were mainly a full taper from tip to butt compaired to nower days more slimmer cues. And in the past there had been a flat butted cue, the mannock with a slight hump and a triangular butted cue.

1) But what else has there been?
2) Could there be room for improvement?
and
3) Would this improve and ultimately change your game?

I ask this as if you hold your hand as if holding a cue it forms a square. If a cue's butt was shaped like a rounded square it would stop any unwanted clockwise or anti clockwise movement aswell as feeling better. Opinions would be great to hear.

[ChatLag]

Hi totlxtc,

this is a very interesting approach.
I took a stroll through our workshop to look at grips of different types of grips.

When flexibility in handling is needed the grip is round. If not, it is more ergonomic shaped. So how much flexibility is really needed or wanted to grip a cue?
If y try with a kind of a square i doubt if that feels comfortable. One rounded corner will be showing towards the floor if i hold the grip in cueing position.

Maybe the oval shape of a tool like an axe could feel better?

[totlxtc]

Thanks Chatlag,

I agree i have been wandering around looking at shapes and how they are used and I agree with your theory. But most i the items that are round are gripped firmly e.g. handle bars, door handles etc.

Tennis rackets for example range from perfectly round to oval to octagonal and these are gripped firmer than a cue.

Im going to put more thought into this and get some sketches done.

[Qubit]

Cues haven't really changed too much because they are reasonably well suited to the task they are designed to perform and have evolved to be what they are to today. Any change to this is going to have to be really worthwhile both in terms of end result and in economic terms.

I believe there is a cue on the market currently with a triangular cross section across the bridge hand which is supposed to result in more consistent cueing apparrently. No idea if this works or not. I suspect not for most people.


I have thought about a redesign of the butt myself, something easier to grip and possibly less prone to the occasional slip might be useful, finger moldings? Personally i dislike slim slippery butts ()for this reason. Trouble is most of these things would most likely detract from a cue's simplicity of design (and for commercial purposes probably be too expensive to manufacture if complicated). But no harm in trying things out! Theres always room for improvement and you might just stumble across a good idea!

[dantuck_7]

Problem is for different shots you don't always hold the cue in the exactly same place on the butt.

[Qubit]

Problem is for different shots you don't always hold the cue in the exactly same place on the butt.

Yep exactly. I actually prefer the feel of a nice old lacquered butt as it helps my grip. But thats enough of my peculiar persuasions, back to cue design........

[totlxtc]

Problem is for different shots you don't always hold the cue in the exactly same place on the butt.

You are very right. That is the problem.

Items with "handles" are generally held in one place. Yet a cue has various usable areas, and that is the issue that is in the way of any ideas at the moment.

[ChatLag]

But the different positions mainly are in axial direction. The biggest variation in grip is when you use a rest. But a squared butt could be comfortabel in that situation...

[Krypton]

And, as I'd like to add:

Movement around it's axis is never the problem with any cue. The "gravity cue theory" is complete nonsense. That's just a way of picking money out of people's bag with a high tech arguement that has no effect in real snooker play.

Tests have been made, it's simple: just fix something heavy, like a stick/piece of lead, outside your cue with tape - a fine, pen size piece will do the job - and play. You won't feel any 'great' improvement. If you rotate your cue around it's length axis, you will do so with the extra weight - if you don't anyway, that's fine too. The torque applied by your hand (unwanted) is much stronger than anything the lead could do.

From a physical point of view, it's not important anyway, because such a type of movement won't affect the cueball. It's some sort of "screw action" - not in the meaning of spinning back, but rotating around it's long axis - and this type of spin won't be transferred to the cue ball.

From a technical (snooker) point of view, it might be a bad thing to do (rotate your wrist) because your cueing will be less consistent. You might be making other bad movements that DO affect the cueballs direction and rotation, but that's not the point to be dealt with here.

A last point to add: If your grip is strong enough not to let go completely of the cue when playing a harder shot, then it surely is firm enough not to allow the cue to rotate that way. Otherwise the cue would fall out of your hand when playing.

All together, that means that a special shape or special balancepoint out of it's center axis won't prevent a cue from rotating, because the technical error you make, combined with your force, is always greater than the conter effect any special cue design could have, plus this rotation does almost not affect the cue ball.


From a point of view of design and comfort, other butt shapes might be worth a tought. But as you get a more comfortable (I personally don't need such a thing, a round cue is comfortable enough for me) grip, you lose flexibility and freedom of holding the cue the way you like. Some players like the arrows on the shaft to be in a certain position, some in anther. You'll have to design the cue exatly that way, once you decide not to have a round butt.

Compare with other types of sports: Tennis rackets as already mentioned, but also golf clubs, hockey sticks and baseball bats have been designed in many type of designs and shapes, but still the round one (or quasi round, as I consider an octagonal tennis racket grip as round, once it's taped) is the one used by far the most players. They can't all be wrong!

I don't want to take your enthusiasm or blame the idea of having another type of butt - feel free to try it out, if you like the looks, the handling... but don't expect it to improve your game magically.


That's all for now

[ChatLag]

But to enter the market as a new cuemaker it would be a very unique style to have a squared or octagonal butt and could offer a lot of new ideas concering splicing.
But i think most snooker players are a bit traditional concerning their cues...

[totlxtc]

lol Krypton. Very good write up there. I like to challenege why things are the way they are, and if they are at their optimum. Like you im happy with the round butt, but i like to think outside the box. Believe me, a cue wont change my game....ill always be bad

Just been looking at some shapes. 'A' being a standard round butt. 'C' and 'D' are too square in my opinion. 'B' would work possibly as it has the essence of a rounded butt. Just sharing thoughts at the minute.

[Krypton]

But to enter the market as a new cuemaker it would be a very unique style to have a squared or octagonal butt and could offer a lot of new ideas concering splicing.

That's true for sure! Design wise, you could certainly develop a very individual style.

But i think most snooker players are a bit traditional concerning their cues...

And this is true as well, look at me, I like ONE style of cue: just ebony black butt, no splice. As traditional as it could be

[totlxtc]

But i think most snooker players are a bit traditional concerning their cues...

Oh yes, you sometimes cannot beat tradition.

But who said "Thy cue shall be round!" lol

[ChatLag]

Believe me, a cue wont change my game....ill always be bad

lol... But maybe the round butt is the reason for me being that bad...

[Krypton]

lol... But maybe the round butt is the reason for me being that bad...

That's what I was trying to say: If you're THAT bad, you could certainly violate any type of cue butt design to scratch the clouth with, or hammer balls around

BTW: Grüsse nach Benztown! Mir gefiel besonders die Meistersaison.